How To Make Prisons a Place For True Reform

[DerDrache]

I thought this up last night, and I gotta say: It's genius. Unfortunately, there are way too many bleeding hearts out there, thus this will likely never be realized, but I think it would definitely work.

Basically, you would institute public lashings and humiliation into the prison system. If someone was found to be raping inmates, they would be lashed in public, they would be given a pink prison-issue uniform, and after a week of public embarassment, they'd then be sent to a gay cell-block. If someone was found engaging in any type of violence, be it fighting or actual murder, they would be lashed in public and lose various freedom priveleges.

In addition, you would destroy gang-alliances by making it a punishable offense to organize prisoners into gangs. Effectively, this would mean that when you saw different races grouping together into the typical American gang structures (ie. Mexican gangs, white gangs, black gangs, etc.), guards would grab anyone who appeared to be in a leadership position, whip them, and reduce their freedom. This would continue until you essentially just had small groups of ethnically diverse inmates. If you take away their leaders and, for instance, force a Nation of Islam guy and a white supremacist to play checkers and eat lunch together, I think that would be a major step toward making them civil human beings.

I think this would solve essentially every problem with the prison system. People would no longer go to prison and have to form allegiances with violent gangs, and through fear of harsh punishment, people would learn to solve their problems without violence. The current situation is that people go to prison and have to become worse criminals in order to survive. That's unacceptable.

What do you think? Any alterations? Do you think there would be any feasible way to actually make this happen?

[Slave of the Beast]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

I thought this up last night, and I gotta say: It's genius. Unfortunately, there are way too many bleeding hearts out there, thus this will likely never be realized, but I think it would definitely work.

Yep, it definitely sounds like you've been at the genius juice again.

Originally Posted by DerDrache

Basically, you would institute public lashings and humiliation into the prison system. If someone was found to be raping inmates, they would be lashed in public, they would be given a pink prison-issue uniform, and after a week of public embarassment, they'd then be sent to a gay cell-block. If someone was found engaging in any type of violence, be it fighting or actual murder, they would be lashed in public and lose various freedom priveleges.

In addition, you would destroy gang-alliances by making it a punishable offense to organize prisoners into gangs. Effectively, this would mean that when you saw different races grouping together into the typical American gang structures (ie. Mexican gangs, white gangs, black gangs, etc.), guards would grab anyone who appeared to be in a leadership position, whip them, and reduce their freedom. This would continue until you essentially just had small groups of ethnically diverse inmates. If you take away their leaders and, for instance, force a Nation of Islam guy and a white supremacist to play checkers and eat lunch together, I think that would be a major step toward making them civil human beings.

I think this would solve essentially every problem with the prison system. People would no longer go to prison and have to form allegiances with violent gangs, and through fear of harsh punishment, people would learn to solve their problems without violence. The current situation is that people go to prison and have to become worse criminals in order to survive. That's unacceptable.

What do you think? Any alterations? Do you think there would be any feasible way to actually make this happen?

Where is the evidence that penal brutality tackles the causes of recidivistic criminality, i.e. actually reforms serious career criminals/gang members in any meaningful sense of the word?

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by Slave of the Beast

Yep, it definitely sounds like you've been at the genius juice again.



Where is the evidence that penal brutality tackles the causes of recidivistic criminality, i.e. actually reforms serious career criminals/gang members in any meaningful sense of the word?

Whether there is evidence or not, the current system isn't working, and it's time to try something new. Besides, logically, if people know that the prison institution is going to come down hard on violence of any sort (ie. something more than just the slap on the risk of temporary isolation), it should be an efficient detterent. Perhaps I'm underestimating the will of the average prison thug, but I don't think they're going to sit around with their gang if they know they can be grabbed at any moment and be brutally punished.

Furthermore, it isn't really just brutality for the sake of brutality. It would be directly focused on driving gangs apart, and making the consequences of rape and murder extremely unpleasant even for someone doing multiple life sentences in prison.

You might say it's inhumane, but I think it's even more inhumane that prisoners have to be subjected to the whims of rapists and murderers, and essentially forced to affiliate themselves with worse criminals. I'm not proposing Shawshank prison here. There would be strict, established rules and punishments, and if you followed the rules (ie. don't rape, murder, or affiliate yourself with a gang) then you wouldn't have a problem.

Lastly, although I mentioned public lashings, I suppose it wouldn't have to be implented. I only suggest it because it is a severe form of physical pain, something that would undoubtedly be a crime deterrent. Whippings are not a pretty sight. Some form of psychological embarassment could possibly be an equivalent deterrent, though I don't think psychological torment presents a visual deterrent that's as compelling as physical torment.

EDIT: Whether or not such a program would truly "cure" a carreer criminal...well, obviously I'm not psychic. It would, however, afford other prisoners the chance to do their time in peace.

[My Name is The Lord]

It's a good idea, but I'm afraid lashings simply are not enough. My friends and I had this six foot long whip and we used to lash each other on the forearms, calves, traps, etc. (stupid I know) and it's really not that bad at all. I think the only thing that would work would be something along the lines of having them fuck the sybian in public, but with a dildo around the size of say, a pickle jar. Or tie them with their arms behind their back and above their heads, to tree branches (four cons a tree) and let the public do what they will with them. But really and truly I do not think that prison reform is possible, why not just outright execute these guys when they mess up? You know they will never change.

[Slave of the Beast]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

Whether there is evidence or not, the current system isn't working, and it's time to try something new. Besides, logically, if people know that the prison institution is going to come down hard on violence of any sort (ie. something more than just the slap on the risk of temporary isolation), it should be an efficient detterent. Perhaps I'm underestimating the will of the average prison thug, but I don't think they're going to sit around with their gang if they know they can be grabbed at any moment and be brutally punished.

Furthermore, it isn't really just brutality for the sake of brutality. It would be directly focused on driving gangs apart, and making the consequences of rape and murder extremely unpleasant even for someone doing multiple life sentences in prison.

You might say it's inhumane, but I think it's even more inhumane that prisoners have to be subjected to the whims of rapists and murderers, and essentially forced to affiliate themselves with worse criminals. I'm not proposing Shawshank prison here. There would be strict, established rules and punishments, and if you followed the rules (ie. don't rape, murder, or affiliate yourself with a gang) then you wouldn't have a problem.

Lastly, although I mentioned public lashings, I suppose it wouldn't have to be implented. I only suggest it because it is a severe form of physical pain, something that would undoubtedly be a crime deterrent. Whippings are not a pretty sight. Some form of psychological embarassment could possibly be an equivalent deterrent, though I don't think psychological torment presents a visual deterrent that's as compelling as physical torment.

EDIT: Whether or not such a program would truly "cure" a carreer criminal...well, obviously I'm not psychic. It would, however, afford other prisoners the chance to do their time in peace.

Well if as a minimum you want a more safe and secure prison, then fine. The only issue I'd have with being lashed is the scarring - with gang members that may end up as a badge of honour, and as such could be counterproductive.

For an effective visual psychological torment that only leaves mental scars I'd recommend waterboarding. I'd imagine watching a bound man, whose legs and arms are convulsing in terror and panic as he 'drowns' to be most deterring. Maybe it could be a compulsory part of the induction session for the more serious criminals, just in case Carlos and his hombres think a little bit of water isn't going to hurt.

Originally Posted by My Name is The Lord

I think the only thing that would work would be something along the lines of having them fuck the sybian in public, but with a dildo around the size of say, a pickle jar.

Humanities has certainly... changed... since I last posted here regularly.

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by My Name is The Lord

It's a good idea, but I'm afraid lashings simply are not enough. My friends and I had this six foot long whip and we used to lash each other on the forearms, calves, traps, etc. (stupid I know) and it's really not that bad at all. I think the only thing that would work would be something along the lines of having them fuck the sybian in public, but with a dildo around the size of say, a pickle jar. Or tie them with their arms behind their back and above their heads, to tree branches (four cons a tree) and let the public do what they will with them. But really and truly I do not think that prison reform is possible, why not just outright execute these guys when they mess up? You know they will never change.

Dude, real whippings aren't a joke; you and your friend obviously weren't hitting each other hard enough, and anyone who's even had a belt spanking would tell you the same. If you were to be put on a post and given lash after lash...well, if it lasted long enough your skin would be falling off your back, and you'd go into shock.

[Slave of the Beast]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

Dude, real whippings aren't a joke...

DerDrache speaks the truth, My Name is The Lord, read some accounts from the history of black slavery or the 19th century British navy.

[My Name is The Lord]

Nah man for real, we did this with out shirts off once too. We bled. One time my power lifter friend got me in the trapezius with a t-shirt on and it split my shirt open. He could squat 500 pounds, incredible hip strength, but he still couldn't hurt me to where I felt I was scared or anything. It was just really painful. What you need to do with prisoners is humiliate them, a lot of them have already been stabbed and maybe even shot and in plenty of fights. You would need to get Magnus ver Magnusson and a Sjambok to generate any sort of humiliation/real pain with lashings. Getting fucked in the ass in public would impose upon them the very ideals they promote in prison, that once you are victimized you are less than a man forever. Especially by a pickle-jar diameter dildo hooked up to pneumatic jacks that splits their ass wide open. It's gotta be psychological torment.

Also,



Imagine something like that but instead of a fire underneath the wheel and it's pillars (made entirely of old wood and nails) is situated so that it is leaning over the grand canyon. The men have dead animals stapled to their body so that eagles come to feast upon them. Their bodies would be malnourished so even if they got out and they were pissed it would be a long time before they could recover. The wheel could be powered by non-violent convicts on a treadmill that generates electricity 24.7 (they would be given nutritional gel through a dispenser). If that didn't do it someone would have to bring the fire back.

[Hare_Geist]

What ever happened to ethics?

[Slave of the Beast]

Originally Posted by Hare_Geist

What ever happened to ethics?

In this thread they've been replaced by something that might actually work.