Catholicism: The Story Behind The Bullshit

[ToxicWasted]

Basically all Catholicism (and many other religions) is, is a police force for morals and ethics. It's pretty much a classic carrot and stick setup, with heaven as the carrot, and hell as the stick. If you go out of your set of rules, you get whipped and, in Catholicism's case, go to hell. If you do good and are morally "right," you get a pat on the back and go to heaven. So essentially they are trying to enforce a set of rules. But personally, I see no benefit to religion as long as people accept whats right and wrong. Religion has been a cause, major or minor, for almost all the world's wars. It has created far more problems than it has solved. Feel free to poke holes in this.

[kenwih]

you are such a fucking genious. can i worship you?

[Interest]

quote:Originally posted by ToxicWasted:

Basically all Catholicism (and many other religions) is, is a police force for morals and ethics. It's pretty much a classic carrot and stick setup, with heaven as the carrot, and hell as the stick. If you go out of your set of rules, you get whipped and, in Catholicism's case, go to hell. If you do good and are morally "right," you get a pat on the back and go to heaven. So essentially they are trying to enforce a set of rules. But personally, I see no benefit to religion as long as people accept whats right and wrong. Religion has been a cause, major or minor, for almost all the world's wars. It has created far more problems than it has solved. Feel free to poke holes in this.

"Religion has been a cause, major or minor, for almost all the world's wars. It has created far more problems than it has solved."

What do you mean by religion? Since the lead-in was Catholicism do you equate religion is Catholicism and thus catholicism is the reason for war?

I hope not because I immediatly see many problems with the assumption.

War is a product of humanism - as war serves humanistic needs. I have been both a member of a large well-trained armed force and a peaceful follower of God. I can tell you that God has always prepared Armies for the good of a people and not Himself. He has no need to defend His borders with men.

I can tell you that the war I was involved in had nothing to do with God or religion and the more I think about it there are very few wars that actually did involve religion. Since, I'm American I can only look at American History to conclude that observation.

American Revolution? Was not fought for God but for American soverignity.

Spanish-American war? Was not fought for God but for defining the southern borders of the country.

Civil-war? Was not fough for God but fought to unionize the nation under one flag.

World War 1? Was not fought for God but for European stability.

World War 2? Wsa not fought for God but against Japanese Imperialism and against the spread of Nazism.

Cold War? Was not fought for God but for ideals against communism vs. capitolism.

Korean War? Was not forught for God but for a UN action to fight communism n Korea.

Vietnam? Was not fought for God but for a UN action to fight communism in Vietnam.

Grenada? Was not fought for God but to defend American interests in the region.

Gulf War I and II? Was not fought for God but for American interests in the region.

So I've looked at a few wars of the US and I have to say that war is not fought for God but for man.

However, if you look at Islam and war in the middle east that is a different story all together.

Please give me one war that was fought for advancing the "kingdom of God"?



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-30-2006).]

[ToxicWasted]

Any of the... what was it, 8(?) Crusades?

[ToxicWasted]

And basically you overlook plenty of the wars minor causes as well. Not to mention the colonists left england because of religious intolerance which helped spark the hate that brought about the American Revolution. I consider Nazi-ism a kind of religion, in that Hitler was considered a demi-god, and fought for the purification of a "Chosen People." And look at the Middle East. Israel-Arabs. Muslim sectarian conflict. Christian-Muslim conflict. East Asian (Hindu, etc.)-Muslim conflicts. Buddhist-Chinese. etc. etc.

[Interest]

quote:Originally posted by ToxicWasted:

Any of the... what was it, 8(?) Crusades?

Think about it carefully.

The crusades was about pushing the muslims back to the middle east. They weren't fighting for God, they were fighting for borders and control.

Europe was being invaded by Muslims. What else is there to do but defend and push back. Just because the war had the appearance of being about "religion" doesn't mean they were doing it to convert a muslim. In fact they were doing it so not to be converted to Islam. God doesn't convert people by the swinging of a sword. That's what men do.

[ToxicWasted]

The result of the Crusades was the weakening and fall of Christian lands. The Crusades were called for by the Pope of the Eastern Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire. It was a religious war to liberate the Holy Land, Jerusalem, from the Muslims. end of story

[Interest]

quote:Originally posted by ToxicWasted:

And basically you overlook plenty of the wars minor causes as well. Not to mention the colonists left england because of religious intolerance which helped spark the hate that brought about the American Revolution. I consider Nazi-ism a kind of religion, in that Hitler was considered a demi-god, and fought for the purification of a "Chosen People." And look at the Middle East. Israel-Arabs. Muslim sectarian conflict. Christian-Muslim conflict. East Asian (Hindu, etc.)-Muslim conflicts. Buddhist-Chinese. etc. etc.

You are still proving my point. These are all things done by the hands of men based on humanistic principles.

If "religion" is "man-made" and "religion" is the "cause of many wars" then how can you blame God? That is my point. It all points back to mankind and what goes on in the hearts and minds of man.



[This message has been edited by Interest (edited 04-30-2006).]

[Interest]

quote:Originally posted by ToxicWasted:

The result of the Crusades was the weakening and fall of Christian lands. The Crusades were called for by the Pope of the Eastern Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire. It was a religious war to liberate the Holy Land, Jerusalem, from the Muslims. end of story

The pope is not God.

You have missed my point. Blame mankind for the faults of mankind is all I am saying. If you want to burn "religion" at the stake then be my guest. You have plenty of planks to build the fire with. I hope you see that God is not beholden to a religion or a set of legalistic rituals.

[ToxicWasted]

But religion is created by humans, so it contains the errors and bloodthirstyness of humans. Islam says you can declare a jihad if something threatens your religion. So if religion is created by man, there is no reason for it because its man's ideas that start the wars. religion is one of man's ideas. religion starts or helps start wars.