Anyone care to discuss the utility of prayer, meditation, introspection?

[Hexadecimal]

In my own life, I pray, meditate, and examine my life rather constantly. For me, my praying is a communication from my heart to portion of my being I think to be divine, that is, part of a larger entity.

I generally make requests for insight into a decision I face, guidance where there is no right or wrong option; I also request freedom from selfish motives, and the ability to better understand others and carry joy to others.

After prayer, I meditate a bit. I silence my mind and wait to hear an answer; it usually comes in the form of epiphany; occasionally in the form of images, text, voices, and the like.

Now, aside from these two tools, I try to examine the choices I make to see what effect they have around me in order to better understand my self. It also allows me to chart the progress of my journey in this world and be able to share what happens in it. I find it pretty cool.

I end my days with an intense period of meditation, usually a couple to a few hours. I try and meditate here on forgiveness, omniscience, peace, love, gratitude, and the like. When finished, I say thank you, then fall into the dream world.

I start the next day with prayer, and even occasionally wake up to find my subconsciousness already praying as I come out of the dream world.

All in all, I think the more practical benefits (that is, in everyday life) I get from these things are a clearer understanding of my life, a more peaceful attitude and a general sense of love that is not easily disturbed.

My favorite benefit I've gotten from these is the occasional revelation of God...meeting the Indescribable soul to Soul.

[chumpion]

Just read a book before bed like the rest of us. You might even learn something...

[L'Explorateur]

I have always been intrigued by what I hear about mediation. I have only been actually doing it regularly for about 3 weeks, which obviously is not enough time to feel the effects that you speak of. As of right now I only feel really open and emotional, sometimes experiencing mild euphoria.

What is your opinion on using binural beats or something similar to reach these states faster? have you tried them? I've been reading about them and I'm wondering if it would truly be beneficial, or if it is another exaggerated claim to sell merchandise.

[medicforlife]

In my own life, I pray, meditate, and examine my life rather constantly. For me, my praying is a communication from my heart to portion of my being I think to be divine, that is, part of a larger entity.

I generally make requests for insight into a decision I face, guidance where there is no right or wrong option; I also request freedom from selfish motives, and the ability to better understand others and carry joy to others.

After prayer, I meditate a bit. I silence my mind and wait to hear an answer; it usually comes in the form of epiphany; occasionally in the form of images, text, voices, and the like.

Now, aside from these two tools, I try to examine the choices I make to see what effect they have around me in order to better understand my self. It also allows me to chart the progress of my journey in this world and be able to share what happens in it. I find it pretty cool.

I end my days with an intense period of meditation, usually a couple to a few hours. I try and meditate here on forgiveness, omniscience, peace, love, gratitude, and the like. When finished, I say thank you, then fall into the dream world.

I start the next day with prayer, and even occasionally wake up to find my subconsciousness already praying as I come out of the dream world.

All in all, I think the more practical benefits (that is, in everyday life) I get from these things are a clearer understanding of my life, a more peaceful attitude and a general sense of love that is not easily disturbed.

My favorite benefit I've gotten from these is the occasional revelation of God...meeting the Indescribable soul to Soul.

Hi Hex,

Would you describe your God to me; which God is he?

Thanks

[redzed]

^^ Stands to reason if there is a God truly worthy of the description then there is only ONE? ONE infinite being -- beyond description or definition.

Hex, meditation for me is an every moment part of life. Staying mindful in the moment, aware, awake to all the inputs of all senses. It's not about a posture or a set time, it's about being truly awake, truly alive! It's uplifting, brings peace and joy, sometimes a blissful feeling. Prayer, that's a faith thing and my life-experiences have taught me that faith is a gift unique to each individual, seemingly needing an 'intuitive'(?) individual response. Introspection is good insofar as I remain aware of the nature of mind, and the way in which it generates random thoughts that I need not take ownership of.

[Hexadecimal]

Hi Hex,

Would you describe your God to me; which God is he?

Thanks

Umm, the only God? Sorry, I feel like I'm being asked a trick question. 'Which God' implies multiple Gods...there's only one.

[Hexadecimal]

Just read a book before bed like the rest of us. You might even learn something...

I assure you that I read plenty. I'm currently reading a few books on these topics: psychology, anatomy and physiology, neurology, oil painting techniques, and using Irish children as an auxiliary food supply. <3 Swift.

What is your opinion on using binural beats or something similar to reach these states faster? have you tried them? I've been reading about them and I'm wondering if it would truly be beneficial, or if it is another exaggerated claim to sell merchandise.

I'll need to read up on it a little bit, but I am personally wary of ANYTHING promising deeper spirituality at a cost. The very first tenet I came upon in my own meditations is that I am to freely share every last piece of information that has led me to where I am. Further, I have found that one needs absolutely no physical aid to meditation. As you practice it, you get better at it; first, the channel is murky, but as the channel is used the refuge that blocks it is cleared away.

For a gigantic free guide to meditations (one I very much like), check out this site: http://www.shout.net/~jmh/clinic/science_of_breath/

Some of my strongest meditations have been found through the techniques described in those chapters.

Hex, meditation for me is an every moment part of life. Staying mindful in the moment, aware, awake to all the inputs of all senses. It's not about a posture or a set time, it's about being truly awake, truly alive! It's uplifting, brings peace and joy, sometimes a blissful feeling. Prayer, that's a faith thing and my life-experiences have taught me that faith is a gift unique to each individual, seemingly needing an 'intuitive'(?) individual response. Introspection is good insofar as I remain aware of the nature of mind, and the way in which it generates random thoughts that I need not take ownership of.

I do try and maintain meditative states all through out my day, but I can't maintain optimal focus the whole day. I find that if I set a short period of the day to be free of needing focus (generally dicking around on the internet or in videogames), then the rest of my day I am able to focus much more sharply and be much more effective in what I am trying to do.

As for the rest of your post, all I can say is that I agree.

[BrokeProphet]

Meditation is under utilized in society.

[Hexadecimal]

Meditation is under utilized in society.

Indeed, as Nietzsche said, "God is dead." Let's imagine ;) for a moment that most church goers don't practice the spiritual tenets of their denomination such as tolerance, patience, understanding, forgiveness, compassion, charity, chastity, or even a basic acknowledgment of another man's worth. Let's also imagine that most people outside of churches don't do much to develop and maintain these same characteristics. As such, God is indeed dead.

I think, that whether one acknowledges this inner resource we have as a channel to God or not makes no difference whatsoever so long as the individual actually tries to maintain a relationship with it. I can think of quite a few examples of agnostics and atheists who maintain (through practices of introspection, contemplative internal dialogue, and meditation) a wonderful state of mind that allows them to carry a sense of purpose and love into their lives and those around them. I find that for my self, my belief that the ultimate source of this ability, and the connection of this resource between individuals is a sort of proof for a God's existence; but I also hold as true that another does not have to carry that same belief in order to access it. Indeed, one does not even need to contemplate what this resource truly is in order to utilize it. Sadly though, many of my brothers and sisters are much more greatly concerned with getting people to view it through the same lens as they do rather than encouraging each other to simply develop a reliance upon it.

It seems that to many, figuring out the precise name and definition of the salve is more important than using it to fight infection. Sad, but that is the reality of human affairs. What irks me a little bit is that I still occasionally fall into this very category; attempting to convince someone to see this internal resource as I do rather than encouraging them to simply use it.

[ArmsMerchant]

Umm, the only God? Sorry, I feel like I'm being asked a trick question. 'Which God' implies multiple Gods...there's only one.

No trick--God is by definition infinite, and our perception finite, so we can not completely get a handle on God until we attain the seventh level of consciousness.

For more info on the multiple God thing,please see the seven faces of God thread.

[Hexadecimal]

No trick--God is by definition infinite, and our perception finite, so we can not completely get a handle on God until we attain the seventh level of consciousness.

For more info on the multiple God thing,please see the seven faces of God thread.

Seven perceptions of God does not equate to seven Gods. Whether seeing a cube in 1, 2, 3, or 4 dimensions, it is still a cube. We just have different names for the object from each dimensional viewpoint: line, square, cube, hypercube. It is still, however, always what it is, and there is only one.

[ArmsMerchant]

Seven perceptions of God does not equate to seven Gods. Whether seeing a cube in 1, 2, 3, or 4 dimensions, it is still a cube. We just have different names for the object from each dimensional viewpoint: line, square, cube, hypercube. It is still, however, always what it is, and there is only one.

Yep, that's what I was trying to say. We may be created in the image and likeness of God, but we create our own perception of God just as we create our own reality.

Thing is, miscommunication runs rampant when, say, a fundy who sees God at level one argues with a mystic who sees God at level seven, or a shaman who sees God at level five.

[Hexadecimal]

Yep, that's what I was trying to say. We may be created in the image and likeness of God, but we create our own perception of God just as we create our own reality.

Thing is, miscommunication runs rampant when, say, a fundy who sees God at level one argues with a mystic who sees God at level seven, or a shaman who sees God at level five.

What's funny (and simultaneously heartbreaking) to me about those arguments is that all seven perceptions still maintain love for God and others as their highest creeds. :/

[killallthewhiteman]

i like the idea of focusing on the neutral space in our mind and disconnecting from the material senses; ive tried meditation and i would love to get into it.

I just have trouble de-focusing for more than a few minutes. Its hard not to be focused/engaged in something mentally.

[redzed]

i like the idea of focusing on the neutral space in our mind and disconnecting from the material senses; ive tried meditation and i would love to get into it.

I just have trouble de-focusing for more than a few minutes. Its hard not to be focused/engaged in something mentally.

This is on topic I believe and may interest you. It's from "THIS LIGHT IN ONESELF True Meditation" by J.Krishnamurti. He starts the chapter titled 'The Miracle of Attention' like this: "Can we put away all ideas, concepts, and theories and find for ourselves if there is something sacred -- not the word, because the word is not the thing, the description is not the described -- to see if there is something real, not an imagination, not something illusory, fanciful, not a myth, but a reality that can never be destroyed, a truth that is abiding?

To find that out, to come upon it, all authority of any kind, especially spiritual, must be totally set aside, because authority implies conformity, obedience, acceptance of a certain pattern. A mind must be capable of standing alone, of being a light to itself."

He goes on to say that following others, methods, tradition etc., is irrelevant to the answer. He discusses the importance of being "concerned with the whole of life"; asks whether the mind can ever be truly still and, asks how powerful a stilled mind could be. "Have you ever given attention to something totally? Are you giving attention to what the speaker is saying? Or are you listening with a comparitive mind that has already acquired certain knowledge and is comparing what is being said to what you already know? Are you interpreting what is being said according to your own knowledge, your own tendency, your own prejudice? That is not attention is it? If you give complete attention, with your body, with your nerves, with your eyes, with your ears, with your mind, with your whole being, there is no center from which you are attending, there is only attention. That attention is complete silence."
Very simple to understand, harder to practice and practice is what's needed in this chaotic world. "Most people's lives are empty, poor. Although they have a great deal of knowledge, their lives are poor, contradictory, not whole, unhappy." Out of that chaos, that disorder "when you are aware of it and give your whole attention to it, out of that attention comes order, which is a virtue -- a living thing, not a thing contrived, practiced, and made ugly"

"Meditation in daily life is the transformation of the mind, a psychological revolution so that we live a daily life -- not in theory, not as an ideal, but in every movement of that life -- in which there is compassion, love, and the energy to transcend all the pettiness, the narrowness, the shallowness. When the mind is quiet --- really still, not made still through desire, through will -- then there is a totally different kind of movement that is not of time."
Experienced meditators and novices alike who pay full attention will know this feeling, but as the author writes:
You know, to go into that would be absurd. It would be a verbal description and therefore not real. What is important is the art of meditation. One sense of the word "art" is to put everything in it's right place, putting everything in our life, our daily life, in the right place, so that there is no confusion. And when there is order, righteous behaviour, and a mind that is completely quiet in our daily life, then the mind will find out for itself whether there is the immeasurable or not. Until you find that which is the highest form of holiness, life is dull, meaningless. And that is why right meditation is abolutely necessary, so that the mind is made young, fresh, innocent. Innocent means not able to be hurt. All that is implied in meditation that is not divorced from our daily living. In the very understanding of our daily living, meditation is necessary. That is, to attend completely to what you are doing -- when you talk to somebody, the way you walk, the way you think, what you think -- to give your attention to that is part of meditation.

Meditation is not an escape. It is not something mysterious. Out of meditation comes a life that is holy, a life that is sacred. And therefore you treat all things as sacred."

From what I understand of Krishnamurti, meditation is finding out for yourself! Becoming satisfied in one's own mind. Sounds good to me! It would however be a mistake, in my opinion, to limit meditation to this analysis. IMO what ever works for you is best; for me, by trying his methods, the proofs were evident, but indescribable. Each must walk their own path, seek your own light within.

[Vanhalla]

Thanks for sharing, I love you guys.

The utility of prayer, meditation, and introspection (PMI) becomes blatantly obvious during the practice of such, and as such wisdom becomes integrated into your outward manifestations.

By just doing the simple practice of tuning into the etheric template of which the solidified highly dense wavicles and the less dense air-like wavicles relating to the conscious mind of man (this frequency is lower in animals) are based. By just excusing yourself from the world, for as long as you believe to be necessary, as many times as you feel to be necessary; backing away from the physical product and into blueprint, into the Spirit, into the Space which all that could be called matter is birthed, a bath in this Light is far more profound than all the wine this world has to offer.

[Rizzo in a box]

all I pretty much do is meditate these days

what it really is

is just saving energy

[killallthewhiteman]

Redzed= legend.

Im attracted to meditation because im an introverted person, i spend most of my time with myself being my myself so meditation fits into that well, and also im a poor student and meditation is free!

Prayer, meditation and introspection have all been mentioned, but is that all there is- what about yoga?

In original context (spiritual) it means "lifestyle" to control or to unite; the west has adopted a small portion of yoga and taken it out of its original context rendering it meaningless.

Essentially yoga is a philosophy. Of course there are many interpretations of yoga jsut like prayer and meditation but at its core there are eight fundamental features

(1) Yama (The five "abstentions"): non-violence, non-lying, non-covetousness, non-sensuality, and non-possessiveness.
(2) Niyama (The five "observances"): purity, contentment, austerity, study, and surrender to god.
(3) Asana: Literally means "seat", and in Patanjali's Sutras refers to the seated position used for meditation.
(4) Pranayama ("Lengthening Prāna"): Prāna, life force, or vital energy, particularly, the breath, "āyāma", to lengthen or extend. Also interpreted as control of the life force.
(5) Pratyahara ("Abstraction"): Withdrawal of the sense organs from external objects.
(6) Dharana ("Concentration"): Fixing the attention on a single object.
(7) Dhyana ("Meditation"): Intense contemplation of the nature of the object of meditation.
(8) Samādhi ("Liberation"): merging consciousness with the object of meditation.

I dont really know much about it but i thought it would be worth posting.

[Rizzo in a box]

fuck all the rules

I exist in a state of complete anarchy

life is a game where the rules

are constantly changing

and the characters

are never themselves

[killallthewhiteman]

fuck all the rules

I exist in a state of complete anarchy

life is a game where the rules

are constantly changing

and the characters

are never themselves

Isn't a dogmatic maintenance of anarchy a rule in itself? :D

its the classic "the only rule is there are no rules"

[Hexadecimal]

redzed, thank you for the wealth of information. I love the bold portion about complete attention...the effects of such meditation are amazing.

[redzed]

No worries Hex:) Happy to pass on the wisdom of a great teacher, stoked you tried it and, from the excitement in your post, I understand you got as big a rush out of Krishnamurti's techniques as did !. Here's another angle, this time from Shantideva in the chapter on Meditation from "The Way of the Bodhisattva":

Strive at first to meditate
Upon the sameness of yourself and others.
In joy and sorrow all are equal.
Thus be a guardian of all, as of yourself.

The hand and limbs are many and distinct,
But all are one - one body to be kept and guarded.
Likewise, different beings in their joys and sorrows,
Are, like me, all one in wanting happiness.

My pain does not in fact afflict
Or cause discomfort to another's body.
Through clinging to my "I," this suffering is mine.
And, being mine, is very hard to bear.

And other beings' pain
I do not feel, and yet
Because I take them for my own
Their suffering is likewise hard to bear.

And therefore I'll dispel the pain of others,
For it is simply pain, just like my own.
And others I will aid and benefit,
For they are living beings, just like me.

Since I and other beings both
In wanting happiness, are equal and alike,
What difference is there to distinguish us,
That I should strive to have my bliss alone?