View Full Version : I wish to become enlightened
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-01, 17:16
Basically my life stinks. I have various problems in my head that are really stupid and ridiculous.
I wish to become enlightened. I see that enlightenment comes from meditation.
Whenever I meditate, I can focus for a little bit but I always give up. I feel I am wasting time and I get scared people will come down and say I am being a lazy bum.
I want to exit this hell which is my mind. From what I understand enlightenment is a freedom.
I watched some of the "Little Buddha" movie and they said on the path of enlightenment "mara (ego)" tries to throw you off.
So I suppose I must endure the taunts and temptations of Mara and once I get through that I may be free.
Anyone here have any tips on how to gain enlightenment. ArmsMerchant, I know you think lowly of me, but please realize I am a sick mind who wants freedom and healing. I am sure you could perhaps add something.
Thanks,
I wish to become enlightened. I see that enlightenment comes from meditation.
Whenever I meditate, I can focus for a little bit but I always give up. I feel I am wasting time and I get scared people will come down and say I am being a lazy bum.
I want to exit this hell which is my mind. From what I understand enlightenment is a freedom.
From what I understand, enlightenment is not a state, but a process; as is meditation. Meditation is not sitting in a particular posture, or chanting a mantra, although it may include those things. I would recommend the works of J. Krishnamurti and David Hawking especially.
Krishnamurti, cause he teaches it's more important to ask questions than to have answers; which to my mind equates with the reality of constant change -- where answers can get left behind, but questions are always relevant. He also teachs that meditation is a state of complete awareness, concentration on the present moment, and can be done anywhere at any time, by simply focusing on the input of all senses -- including the mind. Yes, the mind, and it's thoughts, are counted as a sense! When thoughts come up in meditation many people think they have lost it, seeing as the popular conception is a state of no thought.
Thing is when one concentrates on the present moment, what can I smell, what can I feel, what am I seeing, what am I hearing, what can I taste, ... trying to focus on being aware of all those inputs in the moment -- tends to shut down thought. Apparently, when the Buddha was asked the difference between him and others, he did not say 'I'm enlightened", he said "I'm awake".
If one's mind is constantly preoccupied with thought patterns, particularly negative ones, one tends to be lost in thoughts of the past or fears for the future, and one is not really aware of the present moment. It could be asked, in that case, is one really living? Or is one existing in a state of illusion? When the thoughts are preoccupied with things that have happened, rarely is the memory exact; more often it is coloured by one's emotions to become a 'version' of what happened. Similar with thoughts of the future. Being totally awake in the present moment, without preconceptions or past baggage, is a better state in which to truly apprehend reality.
Hawkins (Power vs Force) teachs a method of heightening one's level of consciousness by being aware of one's emotions. Emotion is the key to understanding where one is in the present in regards to spiritual development. For example: you have fear, fear comes from an emotion of anxiety, it sets off a process of withdrawal and implies that life is frightening and the controlling principle/god is punitive. In contrast: if one is able to have courage( even just to hold that thought in mind), it brings up emotions of affirmation, and lends itself to a process of empowerment. Life becomes feasible, and the controlling principle/god may be cognised as permitting.
"Life was not meant to be easy, but take courage my child it can be wonderful" George Bernard Shaw
EpicurusGeorge
2008-09-01, 21:41
Just wanting to have understanding is, in my opinion, the most important step. For me, learning and understanding new things, is one of my favorite feelings. Just keep that thirst for knowledge and I believe that you will slowly begin to enjoy life more and more. That has been my experience anyways, it’s different for all people, but if you keep up your search for understanding, I'm quite sure that you will have positive results. As for meditation, I think that it is a very beneficial practice. When I first tried meditating, I had results very similar to yours; the key to meditation is practice, just the same as anything else. Keep with it. If you really set your mind to it, you will get good at it, and through it you’ll find that you’ll be more peaceful and happier.
---Beany---
2008-09-01, 22:20
As far as I'm concerned, enlightenment means that you think nothing but positive subconscious thoughts. That way everything fills you with joy without you ever having to consiously think about anything.
But to recognise positivity you have to experience it by focusing on it rather than skipping around it with mental doubts as to whether it's harmful or not. Meditation trains your ability to focus, then you just need to take the leap of faith and focus on positivity.
Learn to watch your thoughts and notice how the negative thoughts always hurt your feelings. Learn how to fearlessly have positive thoughts.
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-01, 23:01
What do you mean by positive thoughts? If I started thinking shit that I clearly know are lies "ooh the world is so great" blah blah blah, then my mind says "thats bullshit" and it doesn't work..
kurdt318
2008-09-01, 23:53
I wish to become enlightened.
Good luck. How many of your other "wishes" have ever come true? None. Don't wish. Choose. "I AM" is the most creative(literally creative, as in rendering creation) phrase in this world.
Basically my life stinks. I have various problems in my head that are really stupid and ridiculous.
Get over yourself. Things are only "bad" because you choose to view them as such.
I see that enlightenment comes from meditation.
There is no "one" way to an omnipotent force.
Whenever I meditate, I can focus for a little bit but I always give up. I feel I am wasting time
If you are still having an internal dialogue, then you are not meditating. Stop listening to your mind and instead to the sound of your breath or a mantra.
I get scared people will come down and say I am being a lazy bum.
Go somewhere where you can be alone without being distrubed by ANYTHING. Any sound, smell, feeling, etc. can ruin a meditation.
"mara (ego)" tries to throw you off.
And this is what you are currently experiencing. if I may borrow some wisdom on the Ego from Shankara:
the ego is that aspect of your being that identifies with the positions and possessions of your life. It is ultimately your self-image---the way you want to project who you are to yourself and to the world. The ego is the boundary maker that attempts to assert ownership through the concepts of “I,” “me,” “my,” and “mine.” The ego seeks security through control and often has a deep-seated need for approval. Most emotional pain is the result of you ego being offended because something that it believed it had control over was actually outside your jurisdiction
CharChar
2008-09-02, 07:52
What do you mean by positive thoughts? If I started thinking shit that I clearly know are lies "ooh the world is so great" blah blah blah, then my mind says "thats bullshit" and it doesn't work..
I know how you feel.
But I think enlightenment is more comfort then happiness.
Or maybe its the comfort that leads to happiness.
I don't know.
What do you mean by positive thoughts? If I started thinking shit that I clearly know are lies "ooh the world is so great" blah blah blah, then my mind says "thats bullshit" and it doesn't work..
Those are not positive thoughts, they are delusional thoughts:) The world is not great and, for me, that's not what is meant by positive thinking. Positive thinking begins with courage! The courage to face up to the fact that shit happens, and get over it. Buddha's First Noble Truth is: Life is Suffering(Dukkha), the second is that we suffer because of our own desires and aversions, the third is the good news we can escape suffering by detaching from our desires and aversions and the fourth is the eightfold path.
The first step in that path is Right View, which to me means, get a grip! Get a grip on reality, life is difficult! But it can be wonderful:D
Second step is: Right Intention, which means to me one's thoughts/intentions as formed by one's 'view'.
Third step: Right Speech. Self talk is powerful and what one allows in one's mind is paramount to happiness therefore guarding your thoughts will uplift your speech!
Fourth step: Right Actions. These follow from Right View, Intentions and Speech. "What we think, we become."
Fifth Step: Right Lifestyle. Work, play, whatever, .. all those things depend upon what is in my mind!
Sixth Step: Right Effort. One needs to be vigilant to keep the negative thoughts out and this can be done by keeping a joke book nearby, or some fav music, or meditating on an uplifting poem/mantra/etc.
Seventh step: Right Mindfulness. One needs to be present and observe the movements of the mind. "If with mindfulness rope, the elephant of mind is tethered all around, our fears will come to nothing, every virtue drop into our hands"(Shantideva)
Eighth step: Right Concentration. Just as playing a sport requires concentration on the matter at hand, so does life, ... if one is to avoid the states of mind in which you find yourself tormented by negativity.
QUOTE]One of his students asked Buddha, "Are you the messiah?"
"No", answered Buddha.
"Then are you a healer?"
"No", Buddha replied.
"Then are you a teacher?" the student persisted.
"No, I am not a teacher."
"Then what are you?" asked the student, exasperated.
"I am awake", Buddha replied. [/QUOTE]
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-03, 03:01
The first step in that path is Right View, which to me means, get a grip! Get a grip on reality, life is difficult! But it can be wonderful:D
Second step is: Right Intention, which means to me one's thoughts/intentions as formed by one's 'view'.
Third step: Right Speech. Self talk is powerful and what one allows in one's mind is paramount to happiness therefore guarding your thoughts will uplift your speech!
Fourth step: Right Actions. These follow from Right View, Intentions and Speech. "What we think, we become."
Fifth Step: Right Lifestyle. Work, play, whatever, .. all those things depend upon what is in my mind!
Sixth Step: Right Effort. One needs to be vigilant to keep the negative thoughts out and this can be done by keeping a joke book nearby, or some fav music, or meditating on an uplifting poem/mantra/etc.
Seventh step: Right Mindfulness. One needs to be present and observe the movements of the mind. "If with mindfulness rope, the elephant of mind is tethered all around, our fears will come to nothing, every virtue drop into our hands"(Shantideva)
Eighth step: Right Concentration. Just as playing a sport requires concentration on the matter at hand, so does life, ... if one is to avoid the states of mind in which you find yourself tormented by negativity.
So basically I have to try and force "right thoughts" on myself?
What exactly is a "right thought"?
I dont know.. I tried looking into Eightfold path but I find it real hard to understand and I am not sure it really does anything.
I really wish somehow I could become enlightened though. My life sucks balls. Not because of anything external, just what is in my head and how I always feel.
BrokeProphet
2008-09-03, 04:04
So basically I have to try and force "right thoughts" on myself?
What exactly is a "right thought"?
I dont know.. I tried looking into Eightfold path but I find it real hard to understand and I am not sure it really does anything.
I really wish somehow I could become enlightened though. My life sucks balls. Not because of anything external, just what is in my head and how I always feel.
Path to enlightenment:
When you wake up in the morning, go to the mirror and gaze at your reflection for a moment.
THen say this mantra:
"I am good enough, I am smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me".
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-03, 04:51
Path to enlightenment:
When you wake up in the morning, go to the mirror and gaze at your reflection for a moment.
THen say this mantra:
"I am good enough, I am smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me".
I appreciate the simple and practical advice, unfortunately, I am well past the stage where anything that simple would have any effect.
So basically I have to try and force "right thoughts" on myself?
Not at all! Right thoughts follow from Right View, that is accept Buddha's First Noble Truth to gain a realistic idea of life and then follow thru with the rest. Right thoughts are the fruit of a Right View. You could rephrase that to "Life Sucks Balls" --- accept that it does, then ask why? Is it because of unfulfilled desires or because of aversions you can't avoid?
BrokeProphet
2008-09-03, 07:33
I appreciate the simple and practical advice, unfortunately, I am well past the stage where anything that simple would have any effect.
It was something Al Franken used to say in a skit on SNL about a douch bag who used this self empowering nonsense.
I have another suggestion...
Stop believing in a power greater than yourself, stop blaming or praising an imaginary figure, open your fucking eyes and realize the possiblity that you may never be on Earth again and in all likelyhood will cease to exist upon your death.
This is a good thing...go have some fun while it lasts.
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-03, 15:05
Stop believing in a power greater than yourself, stop blaming or praising an imaginary figure, open your fucking eyes and realize the possiblity that you may never be on Earth again and in all likelyhood will cease to exist upon your death.
This is a good thing...go have some fun while it lasts.
I am not religious at all and pretty sure there is no afterlife. I have a belief that I could get to a better place in my mind, I have done it once and I wish I could go back there.
I have had fun, insanity, sex, violence and all that.
I am not religious at all and pretty sure there is no afterlife. I have a belief that I could get to a better place in my mind, I have done it once and I wish I could go back there.
I have had fun, insanity, sex, violence and all that.
Bro, with all due respect, this thread is beginning to sound like a 'yes but' mind game. Suggest you read up on the subconscious mind games we all play until .. we wake up! An oldie but, still a goodie is: "Games That People Play" By Eric Berne.
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-04, 00:20
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/attachment.html
Good site, may help people also on the same path as I.
I found this interesting:
"Reflect on the Unsatisfactory Nature of Existence. This is also called the First Noble Truth. How much fun is fun really, and how much is it forgetting the pain? Do desires ever stop or is it an endless job to fulfil them?"
So thats what they mean by "Right View"?
So one should focus on how things are bad and why they are bad?
I will try this.
Basically my life stinks. I have various problems in my head that are really stupid and ridiculous.
I wish to become enlightened. I see that enlightenment comes from meditation.
Whenever I meditate, I can focus for a little bit but I always give up. I feel I am wasting time and I get scared people will come down and say I am being a lazy bum.
I want to exit this hell which is my mind. From what I understand enlightenment is a freedom.
I watched some of the "Little Buddha" movie and they said on the path of enlightenment "mara (ego)" tries to throw you off.
So I suppose I must endure the taunts and temptations of Mara and once I get through that I may be free.
Anyone here have any tips on how to gain enlightenment. ArmsMerchant, I know you think lowly of me, but please realize I am a sick mind who wants freedom and healing. I am sure you could perhaps add something.
Thanks,
Time the rhythm of your breath to an external comfortable rhythm for a good 7 or 8 hours straight, bringing your attention to the breath if it goes elsewhere everytime, moving your body until you find the right position (I suggest on your right side for men, on the left for women).
I typed in this post for an hour by the way, re-editing and adding more. I go through this every time I reiterate my own experiences in life. But its not going to help you really.
Whatever can be said of such a thing can only be endless and wrong, and misleading. Look for the masters who urge you to try a technique. What do they have to gain from it? Those are the ones who are trying to give you the keys. Such experiences are real and available to all willing to go the mile...and once you have gone that mile you can truly never go back.
This sort of thing I think is for those who are truly alone and seek their real purpose. If you find god, you banish the mind, you see no-time and no-space, and come back to the societal way of living... all I can say is don't expect to be like a lot of people. The price you will pay is your ego, but from that, a stronger, newborn person can arise. To keep this person arising and not get caught up in new "egos"... well, such a feat is a way of life for the bold and daring only.
BrokeProphet
2008-09-04, 00:59
Altered breathing for an exteneded period...
You mean if you affect how much oxygen your brain gets your perceptions of where you exist in space become distorted? You cannot tell where you end and everything else begin?
I believe this lies within the field of nuerotheology along with:
Near death hallucinations
Drug induced hallucinations
Brain damage induced hallucinations
.....and basically anything else that alters your perceptions, by altering your brain chemistry (the organ in which we use to process all sensory data)
kurdt318
2008-09-04, 01:20
Altered breathing for an exteneded period...
You mean if you affect how much oxygen your brain gets your perceptions of where you exist in space become distorted? You cannot tell where you end and everything else begin?
I believe this lies within the field of nuerotheology along with:
Near death hallucinations
Drug induced hallucinations
Brain damage induced hallucinations
.....and basically anything else that alters your perceptions, by altering your brain chemistry (the organ in which we use to process all sensory data)
This does not make the experience any less valid. Infact, one of the most humbling days of my life came after a meditation in which I realized the human body is nothing more than a biological computer programmed to exist on this earth through billions of years of evolution. And that under different circumstances, it would have been programmed differently.
Altered breathing for an exteneded period...
You mean if you affect how much oxygen your brain gets your perceptions of where you exist in space become distorted? You cannot tell where you end and everything else begin?
I believe this lies within the field of nuerotheology along with:
Near death hallucinations
Drug induced hallucinations
Brain damage induced hallucinations
.....and basically anything else that alters your perceptions, by altering your brain chemistry (the organ in which we use to process all sensory data)
You're in no position to say what the water feels like until you take a dive, no matter how much you try to justify yourself. And the water is different for everyone and no two people feel it the same... That's kind of the law of... life?
You "believe" my experience can easily defined within 5 minutes, but I haven't even said anything of the effects. Oh my friend, it was far from hallucinating, in fact it was the end of all hallucinating.
So you take something you heard, and think you understand it WITHIN MINUTES...based on other maybe somewhat similar things you've heard? Maybe you should throw beliefs off to the side if all they do is lead you to roadblocks that really only encourage ignorance and halt growth or real understanding, but then again, you haven't been where I've been, so you aren't really in a position to say. I know this, because being where I've been you wouldn't emerge with this close minded childish attitude. If anything can be justified as bullshit, it should be cast off as unworthy. All you have are a bunch of bullshit beliefs, and you think it's that easy, without, like I said, taking the dive yourself. People with beliefs/judgements and no experience, who come on this forum and talk a bunch of shit are all the same: immediately you're talking out of your ass, usually to people who know it and will call you on it (but this post is all youre getting today, I'm tired.)
Your beliefs mean nothing to me. I know what I've seen. I know myself very well, I know what this body can do, and I know things the fucking greatest scientists/neurologists/zombies who masturbated in their toilets and read books for 8 years don't know, because I've had the balls to push my consciousness to that level. I experienced something, you reiterated and restated old news thinking that every new experience can be defined by old news... You're a waste of my time. You're wasting your own time, and for what?
Don't be offended though, because a lot of people's beliefs don't matter much to me anyways. It's your belief I don't care for much, I can't say essentially I have anything against you, just your baggage.
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-04, 03:47
Okay Fuck.. I am going to try your suggestion. I am going to stay up for 7-8 hours and focus on breath as you suggest. I am weary about more lack of sleep as I don't sleep well and I have this belief that it prematurely ages me. But fuck... I need a fucking change in my god-damn life. I get nothing out of my life.
Okay I will do this... I will set my breath pattern to 6 heartbeats for inhale and exhale and 3 for holding in between.
Fuck, do you believe that strict adherance to proper timing is essential for effectiveness? I will attempt to do that, but I noticed every time I'd try I would screw that up somewhat.
Here goes nothing..I am going to smoke a small pinner of MJ before I hope that wouldn't negate anything..
Rizzo in a box
2008-09-04, 03:59
Lose all hope.
[url]
So one should focus on how things are bad and why they are bad?
The second of the Four Noble Truths is the Truth of the Origin of Suffering. It, too, is often misunderstood. This is how the Buddha put it:
What, now, is the Noble Truth of the Origin of Suffering? It is craving, which gives rise to fresh rebirth, and, bound up with pleasure and lust, now here, now there, finds ever-fresh delight.
There is the 'Sensual Craving', the 'Craving for (Eternal) Existence', the 'Craving for Self-Annihilation'.
But where does this craving arise and take root? Wherever in the world there are delightful and pleasurable things, there this craving arises and takes root. Eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind, are delightful and pleasurable: there this craving arises and takes root.
Visual objects, sounds, smells tastes, bodily impressions, and mind objects, are delightful and pleasurable: there this craving arises and takes root.
Consciousness, sense impression, feeling born of sense impression, perception, will, craving, thinking, and reflecting, are delightful and pleasurable: there this craving arises and takes root.
This is called the Noble Truth of the Origin of Suffering.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=667700
Okay Fuck.. I am going to try your suggestion. I am going to stay up for 7-8 hours and focus on breath as you suggest. I am weary about more lack of sleep as I don't sleep well and I have this belief that it prematurely ages me. But fuck... I need a fucking change in my god-damn life. I get nothing out of my life.
Okay I will do this... I will set my breath pattern to 6 heartbeats for inhale and exhale and 3 for holding in between.
Fuck, do you believe that strict adherance to proper timing is essential for effectiveness? I will attempt to do that, but I noticed every time I'd try I would screw that up somewhat.
Here goes nothing..I am going to smoke a small pinner of MJ before I hope that wouldn't negate anything..
it's not as easy as it sounds, but it can be done. I know it can, and I know I tapped into something amazing I never knew before and was never taught. This isn't a belief, it's personal experience which is why I get really frustrated when people try to define it by their beliefs....Anything that forces the awareness to remain present will surely overcome the mind, it may take a short time, a long time, daily practice. I got into this kind of stuff when I wanted to learn lucid dreaming, and it led me instead down deeper paths and realizations. This may not be the meditation for you, it might not work. I don't know. There are other ways but the goal is always the same. For me, well it was just following the realization for a few days after a hospital visit and surgery that the breathing is so important and effects our state of mind more than we usually realize. I just saw it as a priority to stay aware of it, and then I had the idea to do this, use another sound outside of me, a rhythm, to keep focus. I was near a main road where I slept. The really fucked up thing is whenever I lost concentration, I would hear cars outside. Meaning only a few times, and it happened each time. Where were all the cars beyond then? It was as if I was so focused, I tuned everything out. That's what the next day was like, tuning everything out yet being aware of everything in front of you. If I didn't pay attention to someone, literally, and I mean literally; that person no longer existed, it was like they weren't there. The more I paid attention it was like showering them with awareness; kindness. Being attentive to them.
Things like, seeing deeply into people. Seeing the real pain in people, the real delusions. No longer reactive means to see things as they are, choicelessly, without opinion or ego. This is the path towards wisdom: Throwing your ego out. We can never define reality by the past, its always new, EVERY moment. To be in the moment is to understand life, then how can you be miserable? Being "bold" (unmoving, unreactive and perfectly relaxed and focused to everyone; unafraid and in control). Actually feeling human attraction greatly instead of what you've taught yourself to THINK about others and you, actually seeing the truth. This was a big shocker to me, because I always had the habit of getting nervous and not knowing how others feel. It was my own mind and really, they felt pretty strongly and I had never even shutup enough to see that. Feeling empathy very strongly. Seeing how you DO create reality and things are deeply connected to you. Seeing others' mental suffering as delusional, unnecessary, seeing you have overcome it, that it is in fact all in their mind. Things talk to you. You understand the universe and feel as if God is sending you a message through moment to moment experience, and "it" always has been.
Seeing your thoughts clearly attracting things to you like negative and positive energy. It's real, down to the split/split/split second that whole "law of attraction" I agree with somewhat. People are so unaware of how connected they are. You will feel emotions wildly. Like, a man who is strong, has a big ego, and has to ask you a question, you will FEEL his fear magnified, his unsureness X 10. He is afraid to be unsure, and it is hard for him, he bottles it up and you see these things and understand YOU are not bottled up because you exhaled a lot of bad energy. It's not always pleasant. Nothing in reality is any longer hidden, you can see into people. They will talk to you and you cannot be prejudice, everyone becomes the same with different conditioning and everything they say shows you how they are, how in that moment they have come to that point of being. It's as if they glow to you and are perfect. Everything is on its' course and perfect. Perfect, perfect and beautiful.
Now this is a realization. You may die, you may lose yourself again but this will now be your cornerstone, anything deep like this will change you and move you in a new direction. Just a glimpse is needed. My life has become a path of getting rid of delusions while working in society and doing jobs that require much thinking/mind while still trying not to become too caught up in it all. People who need money to be happy look like fools to me. I
don't listen to much of what the "neuropsychologists" or WHATEVER the fuck they are say. Doctors even. Doctors aren't the healthiest people in the world. The psychologists people are not even the happiest people themselves, in fact they eat more baggage and I think this runs down their energy. How can you expect me to take advice from someone who is not happy? What would they know and if they know it, why aren't they practicing it themselves? People just know how to define and talk shit. Preachers aren't spiritual, doctors are fat and eat disgusting shit themselves, and scientists have already lost the battle to me when they talk about these things without experience. If they did have experience, the entire scientific community would fall apart. If a man doesn't need a society to tell him what to do, the economy goes to hell. People feed on bullshit to survive, out of necessity, but it doesn't make bullshit true. So when the last poster ran his rhetorical shit to me I cant help but call him on it. It's just not true. Breathing deeply doesn't make you hallucinate, it doesnt make ME halluicinate, so don't tell me what it does. Not until youve done what I said. That is a sure fire way into yourself, into areas of yourself you've been suppressing for years. Any beliefs about this are just empty shots in the dark and bring no real wisdom or lessons, growth, awareness, positivity. They're rubbish, it's childish to think you can define everything easily. Life is more vast, so much more vast. The universe is huge, unending. I don't care what scientists say. These people are paid to uphold beliefs, not help others grow. They make things complex when the only way to see things clearly is to become simple. Hallucinating? My ass. The whole scientific community is hallucinating until they start embracing eastern teachings of meditation, with their own personal experiences... and the problem is if they had some sort of inner experience, they probably would no longer be a scientist, but would be considered just mad, a lunatic. A nobody.
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-04, 20:30
Ok I went about 4-5 hours doing the meditation and then I slept for maybe 1.5 hrs (didn't catch myself falling asleep).
I feel alot more grounded. This definitely does something. I noticed during my attempt that lots of suffering was brought to the foreground, I had to just let it be and keep breathing. Lots of temptations and stuff too ALA buddha.
I plan on doing some of this again tonight as this is the last little while before I work.
I wish I could've made it the whole way, but I feel definitely better and relaxed (I am usually always tense/neurotic).
It's a process.
Like anything, the more you put in, well... "a jug fills drop by drop" - Buddha himself
The hardest part, or the highest discipline, is to live amongst people but be doing things with yourself that are simply not what they are doing. Or you could just do what everyone does... but once you know of something better... really... is pretending worth anything in the end?
I'm glad I could help, and I hope you find what brings peace and happiness... meditation is the best thing one can do for themselves. good luck.
BrokeProphet
2008-09-04, 23:45
People with beliefs/judgements and no experience, who come on this forum and talk a bunch of shit are all the same: immediately you're talking out of your ass, usually to people who know it and will call you on it (but this post is all youre getting today, I'm tired.).
I used to practice Buddhism and I know how chanting and meditating feel.
You will have to pigeonhole me some other way, and continue to pretend it undoes my logic.
How does that foot taste, oh enlightened one?
because I've had the balls to push my consciousness to that level. I experienced something, you reiterated and restated old news thinking that every new experience can be defined by old news... You're a waste of my time. You're wasting your own time, and for what?.
I know how special it must make you feel to believe you have stumbled onto the truth of reality through your own mighty will, and that you have "had the balls" to push yourself...but you are not special for doing this and have uncovered no truth, except that meditation changes and affects brain function and you are not the first to discoer that.
Take your egoism and tuck it neatly in the recess of your ass.
I have not defined your new experience by old news, I defined it with the cutting edge neuroscience that suggests the organ you use to compute all the data taken in by your senses, actually goes under physical changes the more you meditate.
That when you willfully or accidently alter your brain, through any various means (drugs, lack of oxygen, brain trauma, meditation, near death) your ability to process sensory data is distorted.
Again, your defense mechanism that had you lash out with this "you don't know you never tried it" and "this is a brand new experience that cant be defined by old news" has failed to convince me of anything other than how unenlightened you are.
0pportune
2008-09-05, 17:10
This: http://www.miguelruiz.com/fouragreements.html
And this: http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
And possibly this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD
Those three things shot my life into places I didn't even have a framework for conceiving prior to them. Each of those is pretty much a one time thing — you probably don't need to repeat any of them. Good luck.
Broke Prophet, the name is fitting.
To come on here saying meditation leads to hallucinations is complete nonsense. It's either that or you're saying meditation is not rhythmic control of the breath, and that rhythmic control of the breath leads to hallucinations.
I have said a technique I've found that I feel is special, for the benefit of another. You came on here, discrediting said technique likening it's effects to hallucinations, completely dissected and understood by cutting edge, godly, scientists who can say what anyone sees and know everything in the fucking universe like the hole in their ass.
Am I the only one who has found it? Obviously not.
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/clinic/science_of_breath/ch13.htm
http://www.3srb.org/3srb_linkpage.htm
It DID feel special to find it without being taught though, I must say. Am I, this collection of bones and flesh, and thoughts special? No, just different from everything else in my own way, as nature is. This technique I would consider one of the few special things in this universe, for it leads to deeper investigation into said universe.
So back to topic. You are saying either
1) I did not actually meditate but brought myself into a state likened to a drug induced hallucination
2) Meditation brings one into a state likened to a drug induced hallucination.
You with me still? Good. I'm glad we're talking like grownups now. Sit down and have a cup of green tea with me.
Meditation, I would loosely define from reading and my own experience, is a technique for an individual to practice with the goal of said technique being to bring the individual into a state where the mind is absent. Not absent in the sense of permanently gone, but the individual is at complete control of their willpower to use the mind, and is not "overpowered" by needless mental chatter. There are no distortions, no hallucinations involved, while in fact the techniques plainly, clear as day focus on becoming aware, non-distracted, non-distorted, sober and present. That, loosely defined, is meditation.
You're either saying bringing the attention into the present moment leads to "distortion" and "hallucinating" or that I did not meditate. Or that deep breathing has nothing to do with meditation. (really, to me you're not making any sense anyways so I'm going to just loosely define the possibilites of what you're trying to say here). Now, paying attention, is simply, completely concentrating the attention, be it on one thing, be it on nothing, we all know what paying attention feels like. It's required for musicians, athletes and working in the society, etc... We all have to pay attention everyday. In fact, when you are a musician and you are practicing a difficult, tricky piece, you must be very good at paying attention, or you will miss the notes. See what Im getting at yet? No? Keep sipping your tea.
The breath deepens and relaxes when we are around people we like, or listening to calm, comfortable music. It is rigid and thin when someone is angry with us, and can be said to be withheld when we are sad, repressed. Our breathing goes through many cycles daily with us being very unconscious of it. Therefore, the breathing changes everyday. Are you suggesting people hallucinate all day? Or that when controlling the breath one will hallucinate?
Breathing deeply is what people do when they are involved in aerobic activity. It brings more energy into the body and dispels toxins more so than other types of breathing (sad, relaxed, happy, angry, etc.) The deeper the breath, the more energy is taken in, the more toxins let out. This can be observed by anyone, even without a phd in cutting edge neuroscience!
Now what would combining paying attention, musical timing, and breathing do?? Well let's see. First you have the musical timing, which one must pay attention to in order to keep time with. Be it dance, be it a musical instrument. Does the feeling people get from dancing, running, playing music cause hallucinations? Sorry, not in my case, and definitely not in most cases. Ok so with the timing, the attention must be pinpoint and the thoughts put aside. Now we take deep breathing.
People who exercise regularly, obviously, breathe with a certain type of vigor and "freshness" one simply cannot deny. They have altered their breath and made it deeper for extended periods in order to bring more oxygen into the body and get rid of more c02. Are they hallucinating? No. They're not. These people are not hallucinating after a tough workout, in fact, they are fucking clear and sharp as day because the obstructions are gone. Tell me otherwise, I'd really love to hear it.
Now what could combining deep breathing (giving the body more oxygen and getting rid of all the c02) and keeping the attention fixed (to an outside rhythm, such as another's breathing, the timing to a song) do? What would it do to a person to combine all 3 together? Well. You can either listen to me when I say it MIGHT bring you to a state where the mind is absent and completely humbled, or you can believe this guy saying that some neurosuperduperscientist says it will make you hallucinate.
or you can just do it yourself and realize you really shouldn't say shit about anything until you've done it exactly the same way yourself
Hallucinating? You are far from right. Very far.
Your post reeks of ignorance and I almost laughed when you bluntly came back to say "I know what it feels like to meditate and chant".
No, no you don't, you probably, like a lot of people who "practiced buddhism" saw a technique as beneficial, and played around with it, maybe sometimes bringing you to calmer states of mind, to good "feelings", maybe YOU hallucinated. Maybe you sat down and chanted everyday, and this brought a feeling of well being, and that's how far you got. I think back to the parable of the master who washed the mirror imitating his student's meditation until the student became frustrated and asked why he did it. Then the master threw the mirror away and the student was "enlightened"....
You need to understand this "no mind" state is not just sitting there with your breath calm, "trying" not to think. Sometimes a prolonged, 8 hour session can bring it about, sometimes NOT.
If you understand meditation, you understand there are many techniques that work for many people. It can happen in many ways, many times, many places. This is one of them. Now you can say you're right in your own mind to come here and discredit me, for WHATEVER fucking reason but the one thing you can't do is prove it. You can't prove to me or anyone else that controlling the breath will make you hallucinate and go crazy. It didn't hallucinate, I saw things clearer than I ever have before and made many realizations that I didn't realize before simply because I wasn't present enough, lost in my own mind. In fact, dare I say it had NOTHING to do with the breathing, but just the fact I was completely attentive and in heightened awareness. I relay this to someone and you come on here like some fucking christian saying Im going to hell...
I'm not on here to feel special, I'm on here because this is one of the few places people actually care to improve their lives, that has shown ME things that improved MY life, and I felt like helping someone out. You can go fuck yourself now, making absolutely no sense and still without a clue of what it feels like to go through what I have been through, on your high horse of cutting edge neuroscience and mighty western inexperienced wisdom. If you did, the studies of some fucking scientist wouldn't even be 10 miles close to your response, because you would be more interested in pursuing your own path and abandoning teachings and TEACHING others, not condemning and trying to discredit someone's direct experience because of what some fucking guy said and you take as the gospel truth. Grow a pair and go see for yourself
Have they done exactly what I've done? And come back and said "ooooh maaan Im hallluuuuccciiinnaaatinnngg!!!!" Don't study what the scientists say too hard, your head will grow big, and your body will become impotent and old very quickly, just like most of them. I, personally have never hallucinated from altering my breathing. I fully stand admitting the effects of such a practice make things clear, heighten concentration, focus and bring about balance to the body and circulation. You can think whatever you want, I'm allllll done here.
Spam Box
2008-09-06, 04:53
I wish to become enlightened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms
Benito Faggluey
2008-09-06, 05:22
Broke Prophet, the name is fitting.
To come on here saying meditation leads to hallucinations is complete nonsense. It's either that or you're saying meditation is not rhythmic control of the breath, and that rhythmic control of the breath leads to hallucinations.
I have said a technique I've found that I feel is special, for the benefit of another. You came on here, discrediting said technique likening it's effects to hallucinations, completely dissected and understood by cutting edge, godly, scientists who can say what anyone sees and know everything in the fucking universe like the hole in their ass.
Am I the only one who has found it? Obviously not.
http://www.shout.net/~jmh/clinic/science_of_breath/ch13.htm
http://www.3srb.org/3srb_linkpage.htm
It DID feel special to find it without being taught though, I must say. Am I, this collection of bones and flesh, and thoughts special? No, just different from everything else in my own way, as nature is. This technique I would consider one of the few special things in this universe, for it leads to deeper investigation into said universe.
So back to topic. You are saying either
1) I did not actually meditate but brought myself into a state likened to a drug induced hallucination
2) Meditation brings one into a state likened to a drug induced hallucination.
You with me still? Good. I'm glad we're talking like grownups now. Sit down and have a cup of green tea with me.
Meditation, I would loosely define from reading and my own experience, is a technique for an individual to practice with the goal of said technique being to bring the individual into a state where the mind is absent. Not absent in the sense of permanently gone, but the individual is at complete control of their willpower to use the mind, and is not "overpowered" by needless mental chatter. There are no distortions, no hallucinations involved, while in fact the techniques plainly, clear as day focus on becoming aware, non-distracted, non-distorted, sober and present. That, loosely defined, is meditation.
You're either saying bringing the attention into the present moment leads to "distortion" and "hallucinating" or that I did not meditate. Or that deep breathing has nothing to do with meditation. (really, to me you're not making any sense anyways so I'm going to just loosely define the possibilites of what you're trying to say here). Now, paying attention, is simply, completely concentrating the attention, be it on one thing, be it on nothing, we all know what paying attention feels like. It's required for musicians, athletes and working in the society, etc... We all have to pay attention everyday. In fact, when you are a musician and you are practicing a difficult, tricky piece, you must be very good at paying attention, or you will miss the notes. See what Im getting at yet? No? Keep sipping your tea.
The breath deepens and relaxes when we are around people we like, or listening to calm, comfortable music. It is rigid and thin when someone is angry with us, and can be said to be withheld when we are sad, repressed. Our breathing goes through many cycles daily with us being very unconscious of it. Therefore, the breathing changes everyday. Are you suggesting people hallucinate all day? Or that when controlling the breath one will hallucinate?
Breathing deeply is what people do when they are involved in aerobic activity. It brings more energy into the body and dispels toxins more so than other types of breathing (sad, relaxed, happy, angry, etc.) The deeper the breath, the more energy is taken in, the more toxins let out. This can be observed by anyone, even without a phd in cutting edge neuroscience!
Now what would combining paying attention, musical timing, and breathing do?? Well let's see. First you have the musical timing, which one must pay attention to in order to keep time with. Be it dance, be it a musical instrument. Does the feeling people get from dancing, running, playing music cause hallucinations? Sorry, not in my case, and definitely not in most cases. Ok so with the timing, the attention must be pinpoint and the thoughts put aside. Now we take deep breathing.
People who exercise regularly, obviously, breathe with a certain type of vigor and "freshness" one simply cannot deny. They have altered their breath and made it deeper for extended periods in order to bring more oxygen into the body and get rid of more c02. Are they hallucinating? No. They're not. These people are not hallucinating after a tough workout, in fact, they are fucking clear and sharp as day because the obstructions are gone. Tell me otherwise, I'd really love to hear it.
Now what could combining deep breathing (giving the body more oxygen and getting rid of all the c02) and keeping the attention fixed (to an outside rhythm, such as another's breathing, the timing to a song) do? What would it do to a person to combine all 3 together? Well. You can either listen to me when I say it MIGHT bring you to a state where the mind is absent and completely humbled, or you can believe this guy saying that some neurosuperduperscientist says it will make you hallucinate.
or you can just do it yourself and realize you really shouldn't say shit about anything until you've done it exactly the same way yourself
Hallucinating? You are far from right. Very far.
Your post reeks of ignorance and I almost laughed when you bluntly came back to say "I know what it feels like to meditate and chant".
No, no you don't, you probably, like a lot of people who "practiced buddhism" saw a technique as beneficial, and played around with it, maybe sometimes bringing you to calmer states of mind, to good "feelings", maybe YOU hallucinated. Maybe you sat down and chanted everyday, and this brought a feeling of well being, and that's how far you got. I think back to the parable of the master who washed the mirror imitating his student's meditation until the student became frustrated and asked why he did it. Then the master threw the mirror away and the student was "enlightened"....
You need to understand this "no mind" state is not just sitting there with your breath calm, "trying" not to think. Sometimes a prolonged, 8 hour session can bring it about, sometimes NOT.
If you understand meditation, you understand there are many techniques that work for many people. It can happen in many ways, many times, many places. This is one of them. Now you can say you're right in your own mind to come here and discredit me, for WHATEVER fucking reason but the one thing you can't do is prove it. You can't prove to me or anyone else that controlling the breath will make you hallucinate and go crazy. It didn't hallucinate, I saw things clearer than I ever have before and made many realizations that I didn't realize before simply because I wasn't present enough, lost in my own mind. In fact, dare I say it had NOTHING to do with the breathing, but just the fact I was completely attentive and in heightened awareness. I relay this to someone and you come on here like some fucking christian saying Im going to hell...
I'm not on here to feel special, I'm on here because this is one of the few places people actually care to improve their lives, that has shown ME things that improved MY life, and I felt like helping someone out. You can go fuck yourself now, making absolutely no sense and still without a clue of what it feels like to go through what I have been through, on your high horse of cutting edge neuroscience and mighty western inexperienced wisdom. If you did, the studies of some fucking scientist wouldn't even be 10 miles close to your response, because you would be more interested in pursuing your own path and abandoning teachings and TEACHING others, not condemning and trying to discredit someone's direct experience because of what some fucking guy said and you take as the gospel truth. Grow a pair and go see for yourself
Have they done exactly what I've done? And come back and said "ooooh maaan Im hallluuuuccciiinnaaatinnngg!!!!" Don't study what the scientists say too hard, your head will grow big, and your body will become impotent and old very quickly, just like most of them. I, personally have never hallucinated from altering my breathing. I fully stand admitting the effects of such a practice make things clear, heighten concentration, focus and bring about balance to the body and circulation. You can think whatever you want, I'm allllll done here.
I doubt it was worth writing all that. I truly believe what happened to you happened as something similar happened to me once while doing something similar and when I gave your technique a limited test it did show results.
Thanks for all the info and stuff though. I hope you stick around totse as I may pose some questions to you later.
If you understand meditation, you understand there are many techniques that work for many people. It can happen in many ways, many times, many places. This is one of them.
............
I saw things clearer than I ever have before and made many realizations that I didn't realize before simply because I wasn't present enough, lost in my own mind. In fact, dare I say it had NOTHING to do with the breathing, but just the fact I was completely attentive and in heightened awareness. I relay this to someone and you come on here like some fucking christian saying Im going to hell...
.
INspirational! Many Thanks:D
BrokeProphet
2008-09-07, 10:11
To come on here saying meditation leads to hallucinations is complete nonsense. It's either that or you're saying meditation is not rhythmic control of the breath, and that rhythmic control of the breath leads to hallucinations..
It is complete nonsense to suggest such a thing, lucky for me I did not suggest that.
I said, it lies in the field of nuerotheology and nueroscience, and merely implied it is similar, only in that meditation alters your brain chemistry*
*skip to the bottom to find out how this is known.
You with me still? Good. I'm glad we're talking like grownups now. Sit down and have a cup of green tea with me.
You.......a few paragraphs after inviting me for some tea and grownup talk:
You can go fuck yourself now, making absolutely no sense and still without a clue of what it feels like to go through what I have been through, on your high horse of cutting edge neuroscience and mighty western inexperienced wisdom. Grow a pair and go see for yourself.
Does that tea taste like hypocrisy?
I show later on why everything in this rant is bullshit....
to me you're not making any sense anyways so I'm going to just loosely define the possibilites of what you're trying to say here
You have done a shitty job thus far....but keep going. My opening response in this reply is pretty much a summation of my rather simple post.....if you are not understanding it.....meditate on it.
Your post reeks of ignorance and I almost laughed when you bluntly came back to say "I know what it feels like to meditate and chant".
Oh thats right, not many have had the balls to do what you have done.
I dont give a fuck how blunt I say it...I do know what it feels like, just b/c I was not as impressed with the feeling and did not choose to completely identify who I am, and how much testicular fortitude I possess b/c of it, suggests I didnt do it right?
I like having my girlfriend lick my asshole and jerk me off. Now, I swear by it, but if you tried it and was not all that impressed with it, how fucking pretentious would I have to be to tell you, you are ignorant and did not do it right?
Us both having experienced it, your opinion of meditation differs from mine.....laugh all you want.
This is one of them. Now you can say you're right in your own mind to come here and discredit me, for WHATEVER fucking reason but the one thing you can't do is prove it.
I am unable to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Mother Mary appears on grilled cheese sandwiches.
Whats your point?
I still am of the opinion that it is a load shit (both your mystical transendence and mother mary's trip to Earth via a snackfood).
Don't study what the scientists say too hard, your head will grow big, and your body will become impotent and old very quickly, just like most of them..
You are the one laughing at my personal experience with meditation b/c I was not as impressed as you, and warning me about a big head?
I can tell you dont study what scientists say....so this cannot be the reason for your big head.
I, personally have never hallucinated from altering my breathing. I fully stand admitting the effects of such a practice make things clear, heighten concentration, focus and bring about balance to the body and circulation. You can think whatever you want, I'm allllll done here.
you banish the mind, you see no-time and no-space, -you
No time and space fails to be a hallucination, how? What did you see if you did not see time and space?
Was everything one?
To remind you this is what I posted
You mean if you affect how much oxygen your brain gets your perceptions of where you exist in space become distorted? You cannot tell where you end and everything else begin?
I believe this lies within the field of nuerotheology along with:
Near death hallucinations
Drug induced hallucinations
Brain damage induced hallucinations
.....and basically anything else that alters your perceptions, by altering your brain chemistry (the organ in which we use to process all sensory data)
[/I]
-----------
ANd now your bubble bursts:
We aren't disappointed [with the results from our brain imaging study]. The finished scan images show unusual activity in a small lump of gray matter nestled in the top rear section of the brain. The proper name of this highly-specialized bundle of neurons is The Posterior Superior Parietal Lobe, but for the purposes of this book, Gene and I have dubbed it the Orientation Association Area, or OAA.[i]
The primary job of the OAA is to orient the individual in physical space--it keeps track of which end is up, helps us judge angles and distances, and allows us to negotiate safely the dangerous physical landscape around us.[ii] To perform this crucial function, it must first generate a clear, consistent cognition of the physical limits of the self. In simple terms, it must draw a sharp distinction between the individual and everything else; to sort out the you from the infinite not-you that makes up the rest of the universe.
So, not surprisingly, the baseline SPECT scans of Robert's brain [Robert, you will recall, was our meditator in Monday's Metanexus: Views 2001.12.10] that were taken before his meditation, while he was in a normal state of mind, show the Orientation Area to be a center of furious brain activity. This activity appears on the scans in vibrant bursts of brilliant reds and yellows.
The scans taken at the peak of Robert's meditative state, however, show the Orientation Area to be bathed in dark blotches of cool greens and blues--colors that indicate a sharp reduction in activity levels.
This finding intrigued us. We know that the Orientation Area never rests, so what could account for this unusual drop in activity levels in this small section of the brain?
As we pondered the question, a fascinating possibility emerged: What if the Orientation Area were working as hard as ever, but the incoming flow of sensory information had somehow been blocked?[iii] That would explain the drop in brain activity in the region. More compellingly, it would also mean that the OAA had been temporarily blinded, and deprived of the information it needed to do its job properly.
http://www.metanexus.net/Magazine/ArticleDetail/tabid/68/id/8523/Default.aspx
Now that I have reduced your mystical experience to a part of the brain that has been purposefully deprived of information needed to do its job.........you can go fuck yourself.
whocares123
2008-09-09, 04:01
I have a question about Buddhism.
If the goal is to become enlightened and to get rid of all desires to remove suffering (which I interpret to mean being disappointed and upset when you don't get what you want, which can range from anything from a fulfilling career, to keeping your girlfriend, to your mom not making your favorite dinner), then what is one to do with their life while they try to remove desire? Nothing? Because if you have no desire, then doesn't that make everything seem so pointless? You wouldn't want to travel places and experience new things before you die, because you are trying to remove the emotion of desire. What am I missing here? This leads me to picture a devoted Buddhist as someone who just sits around all day meditating, wasting their life, and never saying "oh yes, I'd love to go to such n such," or "yeah, lets go do that. sounds like fun and something new!" Wtf?
uselesspassion
2008-09-09, 07:03
buddhism, i think, is misunderstood by many people, especially westerners (i'm one of them). it seems to me that it is more of an art or mindset than any sort of process with a defined goal. so it doesn't matter whether or not you are still tempted by worldly desires, it matters how you take the response of the world to those desires. will it be a personal offense that wounds you psychologically? or is the fault with your desire? i think you can indulge in the world if you want, but when it refuses to agree with your desire, the real test is whether or not you will be angry or pass judgment against that world.
Name's Taken
2008-09-09, 10:54
Religion is not the answer.
I have a question about Buddhism.
If the goal is to become enlightened and to get rid of all desires to remove suffering (which I interpret to mean being disappointed and upset when you don't get what you want, which can range from anything from a fulfilling career, to keeping your girlfriend, to your mom not making your favorite dinner), then what is one to do with their life while they try to remove desire?
Please note it is not the same as the common belief that the Second Noble Truth simply states Desire is the cause of suffering.
First off, desire is not the best English translation. The Pali word used in the sutra is tanha. Literally, it means thirst.
But, the Buddha used it to mean craving, or attachment. Perhaps the easiest way to understanding of the meaning of tanha is by thinking of its opposite, for which there is a good English expression, namely letting go.
We are experiencing tanha whenever we just refuse to let go. --:
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=667700
Prometheum
2008-09-10, 21:41
you've got it wrong, enlightenment comes from the four pillars of Computer Science:
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs (scheme list)
The C Programming Language (C)
The Llama book/Learning Perl/The Camel Book/Programming Perl
The Art of Computer Programming
Once you get through one of those, you'll have achieved a tier of enlightenment. Once you have mastered them all, and can proceed to master any other language and see the heart of any process, you will be one with the Source.
Hexadecimal
2008-09-11, 20:06
Basically my life stinks. I have various problems in my head that are really stupid and ridiculous.
I wish to become enlightened. I see that enlightenment comes from meditation.
Whenever I meditate, I can focus for a little bit but I always give up. I feel I am wasting time and I get scared people will come down and say I am being a lazy bum.
I want to exit this hell which is my mind. From what I understand enlightenment is a freedom.
I watched some of the "Little Buddha" movie and they said on the path of enlightenment "mara (ego)" tries to throw you off.
So I suppose I must endure the taunts and temptations of Mara and once I get through that I may be free.
Anyone here have any tips on how to gain enlightenment. ArmsMerchant, I know you think lowly of me, but please realize I am a sick mind who wants freedom and healing. I am sure you could perhaps add something.
Thanks,
Mara will accuse you. It will do anything it can to get you to give up on enlightenment. The fear of people thinking you are a bum is a manifestation of Mara. It works in us and in those around us. It constantly seeks to build shame, fear, anger, distrust...these things throw us off the path. Mara is rooted in our fears. Fears of death, judgment, rejection, suffering. From these fears come wanton desires to secure ourselves against them. Through meditation, these fears are brought to light and can be eradicated when faced. When all fear is unrooted, the desires that grow from it fall to dust. You will, in time, come to find that enlightenment is the journey, not the destination.
EpicurusGeorge
2008-09-12, 00:19
Mara will accuse you. It will do anything it can to get you to give up on enlightenment. The fear of people thinking you are a bum is a manifestation of Mara. It works in us and in those around us. It constantly seeks to build shame, fear, anger, distrust...these things throw us off the path. Mara is rooted in our fears. Fears of death, judgment, rejection, suffering. From these fears come wanton desires to secure ourselves against them. Through meditation, these fears are brought to light and can be eradicated when faced. When all fear is unrooted, the desires that grow from it fall to dust. You will, in time, come to find that enlightenment is the journey, not the destination.
No offence, but you may want to cut back on the psychedelics. By the way what do you believe? Mara is a Hindu goddess, right? I was just curious since you mention gods from multiple different religions.
Hexadecimal
2008-09-12, 21:51
Lose all hope.
Only in complete defeat does one find that what we've been fighting all along is our ONLY hope.
Hexadecimal
2008-09-12, 21:55
No offence, but you may want to cut back on the psychedelics. By the way what do you believe? Mara is a Hindu goddess, right? I was just curious since you mention gods from multiple different religions.
I believe that It is our only hope. Whatever name you want to give It and what isn't It is up to you. I'll go ahead and use any name you please if it lets you understand what I'm saying.
free yourself from every desire, especially those animal in nature.
Prometheum
2008-09-13, 01:51
free yourself from every desire, especially those animal in nature.
What are you, some idiot christian?
This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long while.
What are you, some idiot christian?
This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a long while.
shut up, lowbrow.
Prometheum
2008-09-13, 04:14
shut up, lowbrow.
Oh yes, because denying humanity is the best way to understand your own.
You have no logic. You just spew random crap. I would bet my bottom dollar that you're just some 14-15 year old kid with bad music taste. Nobody thinks you're edgy. Nobody takes your advice.
And when someone calls you on your crap, you pull out the ad homs.
Good going. Idiot.
BrokeProphet
2008-09-13, 05:09
free yourself from every desire, especially those animal in nature.
How can I free myself from the desire to live, shit, eat, piss, and sleep?
These things, not only being needed for the survival of the animal that is man, are impossible to rid yourself of.
If you freed yourself of every desire....you would sit in a corner...stare blankly...and starve to death.
Oh yes, because denying humanity is the best way to understand your own.
You have no logic. You just spew random crap. I would bet my bottom dollar that you're just some 14-15 year old kid with bad music taste. Nobody thinks you're edgy. Nobody takes your advice.
And when someone calls you on your crap, you pull out the ad homs.
Good going. Idiot.
denying humanity? i seek to isolate and glorify humanity. you might call me a mystic that does not seek god, but man. our desires that are of the body, are what erase our humanity. one can not be fully human if one is controlled by animal desires. the sex drive, the dominance drive, the succeed and thrive drive, are all merely the traits of a animal struggling to survive, and they ought be crushed. even necessary drives, such as the food/water/air drive should be controlled. it's like Rumi said: almost everyone in this world is a child, except those free of desire. it is impossible to spiritually mature if you are harassed at every turn by animal desires and motivations.
and you shut up too. it's just more insulting crap almost every person on totse pulls when they dislike what a person thinks or has to say, in lieu of actual argument.
How can I free myself from the desire to live, shit, eat, piss, and sleep?
effort. monks as a form of protest can defeat the survival instinct, and even the pain instinct, and torch themselves. not in the 'suicidal weakling mental problem way' but in the, un-natural moral action way.
These things, not only being needed for the survival of the animal that is man, are impossible to rid yourself of.
they are impossible rid yourself of, they are not impossible to be controlled.
If you freed yourself of every desire....you would sit in a corner...stare blankly...and starve to death.
animal desire is what i meant. human ambition would be the rest of what i meant, not necessarily human desire. they are different. the impulses of a animal struggling to survive must be identified and defeated; so that if you were to need to for the sake of some reason or another, say, as a means of protest, you could sit in front of good, tasty food every day, and not eat of it, until you die from hunger. the animal desire, to feed, must be defeated if the human desire, to protest whatever on moral grounds, is to be answered.
Prometheum
2008-09-13, 15:52
effort. monks as a form of protest can defeat the survival instinct, and even the pain instinct, and torch themselves. not in the 'suicidal weakling mental problem way' but in the, un-natural moral action way.
they are impossible rid yourself of, they are not impossible to be controlled.
animal desire is what i meant. human ambition would be the rest of what i meant, not necessarily human desire. they are different. the impulses of a animal struggling to survive must be identified and defeated; so that if you were to need to for the sake of some reason or another, say, as a means of protest, you could sit in front of good, tasty food every day, and not eat of it, until you die from hunger. the animal desire, to feed, must be defeated if the human desire, to protest whatever on moral grounds, is to be answered.
You're so full of Christianic dualism that you stink of it.
There are better ways to ascend humanity and become the Superman. They have nothing to do with desires.
OneMestizo
2008-09-14, 02:12
Things just are. Positive and negative come from our perceptions of things. The things themselves don't matter. In fact, they are nothing.
If everything is nothing, why bother feeling negative emotions?
But what if you could make yourself fully grasp and understand the raw beauty and power of everything? What if you could completely reject negative thought whenever it came to you. Always.
I think its possible through complete mastery of all our sensory inputs. i.e. meditation. Think about psychedelic drugs. You feel great right? Well nothing in your brain changes once you come down. All your brain cells, synapses, and hormones are all the same. All the drug did was make you use what you already had in a different way.
Of course, psychedelic highs are by no means the ideal state of mind, but the feeling of oneness and love of everything is part of the way there, i think.
So, theoretically, you can use meditation and the power of your own mind to recreate those positive feelings, and maybe if you get good enough you can stay in that state of mind 24/7.
Thats the idealist in me. The pragmatist in me says this:
Be nice to everyone. Be accepting of everyone. Help people whenever possible. Have few, if any, material attatchments. Don't take yourself too seriously. Happiness follows.
Is that enlightenment? Fuck if I know I'm just some 18 year old middle class american faggot. But it sure does seem like a step in the right direction.
........... As we pondered the question, a fascinating possibility emerged: What if the Orientation Area were working as hard as ever, but the incoming flow of sensory information had somehow been blocked? That would explain the drop in brain activity in the region. More compellingly, it would also mean that the OAA had been temporarily blinded, and deprived of the information it needed to do its job properly.
http://www.metanexus.net/Magazine/ArticleDetail/tabid/68/id/8523/Default.aspx
Now that I have reduced your mystical experience to a part of the brain that has been purposefully deprived of information needed to do its job.........you can go fuck yourself.
I guess we all read what applies to our own experience, eh?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/501160/The-Law-of-the-Rhythmic-Breath-E-A-Fletcher
Five to One
2008-09-18, 06:26
Good luck. How many of your other "wishes" have ever come true? None. Don't wish. Choose. "I AM" is the most creative(literally creative, as in rendering creation) phrase in this world.
Get over yourself. Things are only "bad" because you choose to view them as such.
There is no "one" way to an omnipotent force.
If you are still having an internal dialogue, then you are not meditating. Stop listening to your mind and instead to the sound of your breath or a mantra.
Go somewhere where you can be alone without being distrubed by ANYTHING. Any sound, smell, feeling, etc. can ruin a meditation.
And this is what you are currently experiencing. if I may borrow some wisdom on the Ego from Shankara:
Bravo, kurdt318. Very nicely done.