Does god exist?(not a normal "does god exist" thread)

[Graemy]

Does god exist? Is he real? Those two questions come up the most when talking about religion. I have thought about it for a long time. I have mentioned it before, if god created reality(existence) does he have to be a part of it? If we build a house do we have to be a part of it? The answer is no. But he did put some of himself into it. Just like we put some of our selves into a house. We put our time, our effort, and maybe even our compassion. A house you build yourself will have more meaning to you than one you buy. It is because you put something into it. So god put some of himself into reality, but that doesn't mean he has to be part of it. He could encompass it like Abrahim believes. That makes sense with what I have stated above and Quantum Physics. In Quantum Physics there is a thing called non-locality or the seamless whole where everthing is connected.



In Buddhism there is no god or is there? Buddhism says that a god or gods don't exist, don't worry about it. Which in a sense he doesn't. If he isn't part of existence then he doesn't exist. The focus of Buddhism is to reach a state known as Nirvana. This is a state of no state, of non-existence. I think that the focus of Buddhism is to Become released from reality and, if my hypothesis is correct, become something other than real, something more. If this is the case,which it is from my studies in Buddhism, then most religions are similar. Buddhism would be a striving towards God or non-existence.

So to me God doesn't exist.

Please post what you think of my hypothesis, and your belief on god.

[This message has been edited by Graemy (edited 08-03-2006).]

[Merlinman2005]

In the long run, no, it doesn't exist, because it will end eventually.

God will die, when the universe does. the universe isn't the whole of reality. if it has a beginning/end, it might as well not exist in the outer/larger reality.

so god doesn't exist.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Graemy:

Does god exist? Is he real? Those two questions come up the most when talking about religion. I have thought about it for a long time. I have mentioned it before, if god created reality(existence) does he have to be a part of it? If we build a house do we have to be a part of it? The answer is no. But he did put some of himself into it.



But God isn't a man who built a house, God is what allows the house and the man, and the possibility for a house in one way or another way to exist. People believe in some strange distant confined being when the Real God is right before their eyes sustaining their very being.

The Universe is expanding and will eventually collapse, and so too will it expand again. I don't believe this is the only universe but that an infinite number of realities and universes exist within the One Singular, Infinite, All Encompassing, Ultimate Reality: Which I also call God as it is what everything is made of, sustained by, existing by, within, and completely dependant on. Bhuddism never claims that there is no God. You've already experienced Nirvana by definition, prior to your birth, and you may experience it again soon enough. The Ultimate Goal for a human being should be to live an exemplary life as an upright person and to have all that positivity made to shine back on you later.

This is not the House of God, and God is not a being that requires houses, but this is our house, and the house of many others, living and non living and yet to live. Essentially, God is your home: If you are experiencing it, it is within God.

It is not that God is over there and I am over here, or that God is limited to this universe, but all universes, realities, possibilities are within God, and God is infinite, limitless, God is all there is and ever was and ever will be, there was no beginning, there will be no end, to this universe it will expand and collapse as it always has, and within God is everything. This is God, there is no God but God. We are all part of the One.

[Obbe]

I think all positives balance the negatives.

And all existances balances nothingness.

And whats left over...thats God. Thats everything. And its nothing.

[Fundokiller]

kind of like how the sum of all force is 0?

[Graemy]

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

But God isn't a man who built a house, God is what allows the house and the man, and the possibility for a house in one way or another way to exist. People believe in some strange distant confined being when the Real God is right before their eyes sustaining their very being.

The Universe is expanding and will eventually collapse, and so too will it expand again. I don't believe this is the only universe but that an infinite number of realities and universes exist within the One Singular, Infinite, All Encompassing, Ultimate Reality: Which I also call God as it is what everything is made of, sustained by, existing by, within, and completely dependant on. Bhuddism never claims that there is no God. You've already experienced Nirvana by definition, prior to your birth, and you may experience it again soon enough. The Ultimate Goal for a human being should be to live an exemplary life as an upright person and to have all that positivity made to shine back on you later.

This is not the House of God, and God is not a being that requires houses, but this is our house, and the house of many others, living and non living and yet to live. Essentially, God is your home: If you are experiencing it, it is within God.

It is not that God is over there and I am over here, or that God is limited to this universe, but all universes, realities, possibilities are within God, and God is infinite, limitless, God is all there is and ever was and ever will be, there was no beginning, there will be no end, to this universe it will expand and collapse as it always has, and within God is everything. This is God, there is no God but God. We are all part of the One.



before and after death wouldn't be non-existence according to Buddhism, reincarnation is before and after death, unless one reaches the state of Nirvana

God isn't a man who built a house he is the Supernatural being who created reality. if he created reality he doesn't have to be in it. but he is still in reality because in creating it he put some of himself into it. not something that has to be here or there. but some of himself that is all encompassing.

The goal with my hypothesis is that if you lead an exemplary life and meditate you will reach Nirvana, ultimately becoming one with god.

of course he isn't a being that requires a house, that is why he can exist without existence.

The Buddhist philosophy says that everything must have preconditions. if a god has no precondition it can't exist. so it does say god doesn't exist, but only a certain veiw of god. If God isn't in existence then he would be outside of it. what is outside of existence. nothing. God is nothing yet is everything. his precondition would be that there is a lack of something.

[Obbe]

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

kind of like how the sum of all force is 0?

Yes indeed. Heres somthing to explain that a little more:

I. WHAT DOES THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE "TEACH"?

The mystical experience primarily "teaches" that

consciousness is infinite in space and eternal in time. This

infinite consciousness has been called God, Brahman, Buddha

mind, nirvana, cosmic consciousness, etc.

During the mystical experience consciousness appears to

instantaneously span the entirety of space and time,

consequently it appears that all distances across space and

time equal zero. This "zero" space-time is the formless

"void" spoken of by Eastern mystics. So the primary lesson

of the mystical experience is that distances across space

and time equal zero. From this lesson arises the theory that

space and time are "illusions."



II. HOW DO WE PROVE THE MYSTICAL EXPERIENCE?



To prove that the mystical experience is valid we must prove

that all distances across space and time equal zero. Sound

impossible? Not quite: to prove that all distances equal

zero we must simply establish that the process of the

measurement of space and time is * symmetrical.* If the

process of the measurement of space and time is symmetrical,

the equal but opposite components of this measurement,

expressed as equal but opposite numbers, will neutralize one

another so that the sum equals zero.



III. SYMMETRY OF MEASUREMENT

Distance across space and time is measured by * motion *

from point (a) to point (b) in either space or time. The

motion of this measurement is described mathematically by a

sequential progression from zero: 0 1 2 3 4 -->. Each number

marks a unit of space or time across which motion has

occurred.

The nature of the motion of measurement is * relative.* As

Albert Einstein said, "Every motion must be considered only

as a relative motion."

Relative motion is * symmetrical.* Describing the symmetry

of motion, Einstein observed that as you fall down to the

Earth (-), it is equally true that the Earth rises up to you

(+). Thus, the event of your falling = {(+) + (-)} =

symmetry.

Motion through space is mechanically equivalent to motion

through time: as you move from second (1) toward second (2)

--> (+), it is simultaneously true that second (2) moves

symmetrically toward you <-- (-). The flow of time is

symmetrical: this moment is passing by into the past. Your

forward motion into the future (--> ) *is* the backward

motion (<--) of this moment into the past. Thus time flow =

{(<--) + (--> )}.

As measurement is motion, and as motion is symmetrical, all

measurements are symmetrical. (For graphics, animations, and

info about the symmetry of nonuniform motion, e-mail:

[email protected].)



All measurement is motion

Motion is symmetrical

Thus: all measurement is symmetrical

As the motion of all measurements of space and time is

symmetrical, the mathematical description of all

measurements is symmetrical progressions from zero:

[-- 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 --]

the structure of all measurements

Every measurement of one unit of space or time is composed

of *two symmetrical states of motion.* These symmetrical

states of motion, being equal but opposite, are described

mathematically by the equal but opposite numbers 1 and -1.

As two equal but opposite numbers are derived from every

measurement of one unit of space or time, the complete

calculation of every measurement of one unit of space or

time = {(1) + (-1)} = 0.

All measurements are symmetrical

Symmetry = 0

Thus: all measurements = 0

Traditional measurement theory describes only * half * of

the symmetry of measurement and then erroneously assumes the

complete calculation of a measurement to be nonzero. If the

nature of X is (+) & (-), then X = {(+) + (-)}. As the

nature of motion is (+) & (-), and as measurement = motion,

measurement = {(+) + (-)}.

IV. CONCLUSION

What was required to be proven -- that the measurement of

space and time is symmetrical and thus equals zero -- has

been proven. By proving that all measurements of space and

time equal zero, all measurements of all physical phenomena

must also equal zero, for space and time are the basis of

all physical measurements. That the experience of space and

time *seems* to contradict an absolute zero sum is a

consequence of misunderstanding what "zero" means and does

not alter the logical proof which dictates that space and

time equal zero.

As all measurements of space and time must equal zero due to

the symmetry of relative motion, logic clearly dictates that

the claim arising from the mystical experience -- that all

distances across space and time equal zero -- is true.

Unless it can be shown that relative motion is not

symmetrical, logic dictates that the mystical experience

must be the experience of the truth.

EDIT- http://www.erowid.org/spirit/writings/spirit_writings1.shtml

[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 08-04-2006).]

[Graemy]

Obbe's veiw on god is interesting

[Truth is all]

Ok abrahim, prove the Bible false and I will believe what you say.

[Graemy]

this isn't who is right or wrong thread this is a what is your view thread.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Truth is all:

Ok abrahim, prove the Bible false and I will believe what you say.

I already put a long post directly for you which listed Bible contradictions and a little essay type thing in the other thread.

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 08-06-2006).]

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Obbe:

I think all positives balance the negatives.

And all existances balances nothingness.

And whats left over...thats God. Thats everything. And its nothing.

If you were to strip absolutely everything that is within Ultimate Reality, absolutely everything, you would be left with nothing, nothing but God, which is what we exist within, are made of, and dependant on, the infinite plain of infinite knowledge which manifested us, our universe, our reality, and all others.

[kurdt318]

cool thread. God is just an old wives tale made up to get people to A. do the right thing and B. explain things that are otherwise unexplainable. Everything we cant explain becomes god. As for my views on sacred texts; take harry potter for example some on comes along and reads it and says "hey this is a good book" and writes somthing more to it and then 100 years later another guy comes along and reads it and says "wow this is awesome" and adds somthing to it and so forth and so on until finally somone says "hey this is great im gonna start to live my life like this" and thus starts a religion

[Graemy]

that is an interesting take on it.

it makes sense too.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by kurdt318:

cool thread. God is just an old wives tale made up to get people to A. do the right thing and B. explain things that are otherwise unexplainable. Everything we cant explain becomes god. As for my views on sacred texts; take harry potter for example some on comes along and reads it and says "hey this is a good book" and writes somthing more to it and then 100 years later another guy comes along and reads it and says "wow this is awesome" and adds somthing to it and so forth and so on until finally somone says "hey this is great im gonna start to live my life like this" and thus starts a religion

That's like the Old Testament but not all religious texts are written like that.