Christianity Wins

[potentgirt]

www.carm.org (http://www.carm.org)

if you have any unanswered questions after trying there, post here

[jsaxton14]

Christianity claims that the Earth was flooded 4,000 years ago, the Tower of Babel myth is true, all humans are descended from two common ancestors, God unleashed a series of plagues upon Ancient Egypt, Moses literally parted the Red Sea. The Bible contains dozens of other equally outrageous claims.

Christianity loses.

[This message has been edited by jsaxton14 (edited 01-26-2006).]

[Beta69]

Um, the fact that a site can partially defend questions about the bible doesn't mean christianity wins.

Their evolution/creationism section is a bit lacking, waving back and forth between the two depending on the author of the work.

[ArgonPlasma2000]

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Christianity claims that the Earth was flooded 4,000 years ago, the Tower of Babel myth is true, all humans are descended from two common ancestors, God unleashed a series of plagues upon Ancient Egypt, Moses literally parted the Red Sea. The Bible contains dozens of other equally outrageous claims.

Christianity loses.



If the Bible is true, then God exists and therefore all stories contained therein are validated.

You lose.

[Beta69]

IF the bible is true.

So far I haven't seen any solid evidence that it is.

[blacksh33p18]

Who said the king james bible was written by god and there is a god in the first place? There are tons of contridictions, time gaps and rules pat roberts doesn't even abide by. But hey, sounds air tight to me.

Any number of bad decisions are made by assumptions and the people I run into thumping the fucking thing are the people that know least about the history of the actual text and just assume god just chucked the thing down one day in plain english. I ask them about Guttenberg, hand written texts, what happened during fuedalism, the number of translations the orginal and the text of such and they draw a blank.

At the end of the day a conscious and questioning being shrugs his or her shoulders and without sarcasm asks: "who were they trying to convince"?

[yoda_me07]

Where does it say that it was flooded 4000 years ago?

[jsaxton14]

quote:Originally posted by yoda_me07:



Where does it say that it was flooded 4000 years ago?

We know when Jesus was born (approximately 2000 years ago). The Bible provides us with several (contradictory) geneologies of Jesus dating back to Adam and Eve. If we add up all the ages of Jesus' ancestors (all the way back to Noah and the flood) we discover it was approximately 4000 years ago.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

If the Bible is true, then God exists and therefore all stories contained therein are validated.

You lose.

Using modern science I can disprove several of the claims of the Bible. Modern archeology (coupled with carbon 14 dating) also shatters several biblical myths.

Jesus loses.

[Fai1safe]

Im suprised people can believe writting about shit that happened 2000 years ago. We change and misunderstand things all the time. Hell id be suprised if people could tell me of an event 100 years ago and be exact let alone 2000 years.

[Snoopy]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

If the Bible is true, then God exists and therefore all stories contained therein are validated.

You lose.

Your mother's loose, nigger.

[flatplat]

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

Um, the fact that a site can partially defend questions about the bible doesn't mean christianity wins.

Their evolution/creationism section is a bit lacking, waving back and forth between the two depending on the author of the work.

I have to agree with you there, the eevolution section is quite lacking and the science they use to prove their points is often incomplete or innacurate. I'm going to use one of their more ridiculous pages as an example.

The problem of genetic improbability - Tries to use math to show that evolution is hardly probable.

States "The minimum number of mutations necessary to produce the simplest new structure in an organism is five" But it can be less than that if we count major mutations in karyotype such chromosome deletions, inversions etc. A type of vinegar fly was found to been split into different species in this was ( Drosophilla from memory)

The rate of mutation they quote is also an average. In truth, Bacteria and other single cell organisms have much higher rates of mutation, with up to 5-6% of any population being viable mutants.

That's including the E. coli they used in their example, making their calculations pointless.

Such a high mutation rate in our single cell ancestors would have given them incredible genetic diversity and an excellent starting point to get evolution into more diverse species rolling.



[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 01-29-2006).]

[Beta69]

Flat: A good brief kill of camp's article.

The problem with their section is it reads like an old log of someone doing beginning research on creationism and evolution and not something that should be on a site to answer all questions about the bible.

[TerminatorVinitiatoR]

I have to say, that site is fucking shiny with the sperm of christians, who just look at it and say to themselves: "someone knows, someone knows i'm right" then don't read anything in it, come back out into the real world, try to debate someone like me, and then lose again, then they go back to that site and just bask in the comforting glow, which comforts them and tries to mend up their tattered world view, the world view shattered when the little christians come out and try to debate people who think about reality.

[Digital_Savior]

quote:We know when Jesus was born (approximately 2000 years ago). The Bible provides us with several (contradictory) geneologies of Jesus dating back to Adam and Eve. If we add up all the ages of Jesus' ancestors (all the way back to Noah and the flood) we discover it was approximately 4000 years ago.

The genealogies AREN'T contradictory, and you've never even read through them.

I know you JSax, don't even try to argue with me on this point.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Using modern science I can disprove several of the claims of the Bible. Modern archeology (coupled with carbon 14 dating) also shatters several biblical myths.

Jesus loses.

Any archeology, including modern, has yet to disprove a single historical claim in the Bible.

Since you have not read the Bible cover to cover, I find it ridiculous of you to make such a claim as though you are some sort of authority, or even have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

You're just ACHING for someone to teach you this stuff, so you say everything you can to illicit a response.

You wanna know the truth ?

Find it. It's there for you, just like it was there for me.

[Digital_Savior]

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:

Im suprised people can believe writting about shit that happened 2000 years ago. We change and misunderstand things all the time. Hell id be suprised if people could tell me of an event 100 years ago and be exact let alone 2000 years.

So, I guess we shouldn't be bothered to believe anything about any historical events 2,000 years or older, not just the historical events detailed in the Bible.

Also, the Bible is purported to be Divinely Inspired by the God of the Universe...I think He could handle one itty bitty book.

That was a pretty dumb thing to say, man.

[TerminatorVinitiatoR]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So, I guess we shouldn't be bothered to believe anything about any historical events 2,000 years or older, not just the historical events detailed in the Bible.

Also, the Bible is purported to be Divinely Inspired by the God of the Universe...I think He could handle one itty bitty book.

That was a pretty dumb thing to say, man.

there is no god of the universe you fucking moron.

tomorrow i will debate you on this, with genuine facts!

[Clarphimous]

quote:The genealogies AREN'T contradictory, and you've never even read through them.

I know you JSax, don't even try to argue with me on this point.

Yes, the two lineages of Jesus are contradictory. And I don't know about jsaxton14, but I have read through them and studied for several hours about them.

[Sgt. Lag]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

If the Bible is true, then God exists and therefore all stories contained therein are validated.

You lose.

That's a big if, considering what he presented.

[Sgt. Lag]

Will the argument between theists and atheists ever end?

It seems that theists can right some of the wrong time contradictions with facts, and provide some instances of something actually happening, and vice versa.

I believe that it boils down to believing the actual claims of the creator of the religion and how you interperet them.

No-one can say Jesus didn't exist, for there's historical proof. However, the actual interpretation of his words is up for everybody, and doesn't have a definite answer.

Most theist can argue their way out of any time contradiction, because they can always rely on the intial words of the creator.

For atheists, it's not that easy. Apparently taking a logical stance (in this part in time) is harder against a religious rule, because there was always intangible evidence that theists bring up that couldn't be deciphered logically.

[Digital_Savior]

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Yes, the two lineages of Jesus are contradictory. And I don't know about jsaxton14, but I have read through them and studied for several hours about them.

Then allow me to break them down for you and show you that your assessment is incorrect.

I can't do it tonight, but tomorrow I will.

This wasn't a condescending post, I have just been through it with several scholars, and it's accurate.

One line through Mary, and one line through Joseph, who were both of the line of David.

I know that sounds confusing now, but I'll get to it.

[Digital_Savior]

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

there is no god of the universe you fucking moron.

tomorrow i will debate you on this, with genuine facts!

Well, your idea of genuine facts does not coincide with the rest of society's idea of genuine facts.

But, whatever. I can't stop ya from making a fool of yourself.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 01-27-2006).]

[Fai1safe]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So, I guess we shouldn't be bothered to believe anything about any historical events 2,000 years or older, not just the historical events detailed in the Bible.

Lol i never said not believe anything that was written along time ago i said that the chance of it being misinterperted was pretty damn good.

quote:Also, the Bible is purported to be Divinely Inspired by the God of the Universe...I think He could handle one itty bitty book.

Thats just funny. Your god doesnt exist you just delude yourself because you cant handle the fact that once your dead thats it.

[Fai1safe]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, your idea of genuine facts does not coincide with the rest of society's idea of genuine facts.

Dont give a shit about your arguement but ive always wondered what made societys idea right. If society thought rape was right does it make it so?

[Zay]

quote:Come here and learn about false teachings such as Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Islam, the New Age, etc.,

Fucking assholes.

[Zay]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, your idea of genuine facts does not coincide with the rest of society's idea of genuine facts.



I'm sorry, I got over appealing to the masses when the masses thought segregation was just.

[Zay]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Any archeology, including modern, has yet to disprove a single historical claim in the Bible.



Something is true just becuase it hasnt been disproven? Good job at putting christianity on the same level as big foot. You can't scientifically prove christianity exists just by saying it hasnt been scientifically disproven.

[Rust]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, your idea of genuine facts does not coincide with the rest of society's idea of genuine facts.





That implies that the existence of a god is a fact, which is a hilarious notion to say the least.

[outcast]

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Yes, the two lineages of Jesus are contradictory. And I don't know about jsaxton14, but I have read through them and studied for several hours about them.

Have you read this site?

http://tinyurl.com/cjvtx

Problems with translations maybe?

The link doesn't take you there directly. Click on Articles > Beth Gazza > Then down at the bottom of the page where it says "Use of 0rbg in Classical and Contemporary Aramaic Thought, Paul Younan"

[This message has been edited by outcast (edited 01-27-2006).]

[Clarphimous]

Interesting, but I don't believe it. The author of Matthew was Jewish and writing to a Jewish audience. He was trying to prove that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, and therefore would have made him a direct male line descendant of David. I did find the Hebrew manuscripts interesting though, even if the earliest known manuscripts were written late in Christian history. I've heard that one of the names may have been lost by Christian copyists somewhere along the line.

[Inti]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, your idea of genuine facts does not coincide with the rest of society's idea of genuine facts.

But, whatever. I can't stop ya from making a fool of yourself.



I am part of the rest of society, and his idea of genuine facts is my idea of genuine facts. Therefore, you made an untrue statement.

Way to judge someone before you even know them! Woot for haters!

[Sgt. Lag]

What the fuck is wrong with that site?

Muhammed paid homage to Jesus, calling him a prophet, but not the last one.

Are they that elitist that they deny religions that pay respect to theirs?

Most Catholics are fucking assholes.

[Clarphimous]

quote:Originally posted by Sgt. Lag:

What the fuck is wrong with that site?

Muhammed paid homage to Jesus, calling him a prophet, but not the last one.

Are they that elitist that they deny religions that pay respect to theirs?

Most Catholics are fucking assholes.

CARM is a Protestant website.

[Sgt. Lag]

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

CARM is a Protestant website.

FUCK!

Either way, I hate religion in general; I find it to be bullshit if looked at from a logical stand-point.

[TerminatorVinitiatoR]

pat robertson thinks presbyterians are the spirit of the antichrist. i bet pat robertson goes home and grates the end of his cock with a cheese grater, followed by a session of "healing" where he inserts his bloody end into the wounds he has previously made in the stomachs of living babies.

[TerminatorVinitiatoR]

quote:Originally posted by Sgt. Lag:

FUCK!

Either way, I hate religion in general; I find it to be bullshit if looked at from a logical stand-point.

too_(fuck flood control)_true.

[Fai1safe]

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:

pat robertson thinks presbyterians are the spirit of the antichrist. i bet pat robertson goes home and grates the end of his cock with a cheese grater, followed by a session of "healing" where he inserts his bloody end into the wounds he has previously made in the stomachs of living babies.



that is quite fucked up. good work... somehow.

[napoleon_complex]

quote:Originally posted by Sgt. Lag:

FUCK!

Either way, I hate religion in general; I find it to be bullshit if looked at from a logical stand-point.

And I'm absolutely positive that you're intelligent enough to back that up... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Dumbass...

As for the genealogy discussion, the genealogies in Matthew and Luke are different.

Luke 3:23-38

quote:23

12 When Jesus began his ministry he was about thirty years of age. He was the son, as was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli,

24

the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,

25

the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai,

26

the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda,

27

the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri,

28

the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,

29

the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,

30

the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,

31

the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 13

32

the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon,

33

the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah,

34

the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,

35

the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah,

36

the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,

37

the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan,

38

the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Matthew 1:1-17

quote:1

1 2 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2

Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.

3

Judah became the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar. Perez became the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram,

4

Ram the father of Amminadab. Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon,

5

Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. Obed became the father of Jesse,

6

Jesse the father of David the king. David became the father of Solomon, whose mother had been the wife of Uriah.

7

3 Solomon became the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asaph.

8

Asaph became the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah.

9

Uzziah became the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.

10

Hezekiah became the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amos, 4 Amos the father of Josiah.

11

Josiah became the father of Jechoniah and his brothers at the time of the Babylonian exile.

12

After the Babylonian exile, Jechoniah became the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

13

Zerubbabel the father of Abiud. Abiud became the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor,

14

Azor the father of Zadok. Zadok became the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud,

15

Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob,

16

Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17

Thus the total number of generations from Abraham to David is fourteen generations; from David to the Babylonian exile, fourteen generations; from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah, fourteen generations.

You can see that Joseph is attributed to having two different fathers, Heli and Jacob. Hey, Digital Savior, maybe this means that the bible endorses gay marriage...

[TerminatorVinitiatoR]

quote:Originally posted by Fai1safe:



that is quite fucked up. good work... somehow.

its the kind of thing these religious people get up to behind closed doors. you know there's got to be something worse than pedo, AND they do it.

[midgetbasketball]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Christianity&word2=Everything+else

Christianity loses